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-   -   Another libero replacement question. (https://forum.officiating.com/volleyball/49129-another-libero-replacement-question.html)

Scrapper1 Sat Sep 27, 2008 07:46pm

Another libero replacement question.
 
Let's say the libero is in the 5 position, and there is a rotation, and the libero's spot to serve is next. The libero is not required to come out of the lineup, but is allowed to immediately replace the player in the 1 spot. I don't have my book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure I'm right about that.

When this happens, there's a weird replacement/substitution sequence that occurs. One player enters the court from the bench, and one of the non-libero players leaves the court. This is not done as a regular substitution, when I've seen it. Everybody just says, "It's for the libero" and the players make the exchange without using the substitution area.

Is there technically a substitution taking place? Should a sub be recorded on the scoresheet? What is actually happening when this occurs? L (would be the new 4-spot) replaces the new 1-spot. A player comes on to fill the 4-spot. How is it tracked on the libero tracking sheet?

I'm sure it's legal, because everybody does it and no ref ever objects. I just don't understand it when I see it.

bob jenkins Sat Sep 27, 2008 08:02pm

The assistant scorekeeper (libero tracker) enters it as two entries: 4 re-entering for the libero and the libero entering for 1. The scorekeeper enters nothing, because it's not one of the 12 allowed (ncaa-w) substitutions.

Back In The Saddle Sat Sep 27, 2008 09:41pm

Imagine if you will:
  • The L replaces #24
  • When L is in the 5 spot, they get a side out and are to rotate
  • #13 is in the 2 spot, and will be rotating to 1
  • The L wants to serve in that spot in the rotation
They could execute this little maneuver using "longhand" -- #24 replaces L who comes off the court; L then replaces #13 who leaves the court.

Instead, they do it "shorthand" -- #24 returns to the court, #13 leaves the court, L does the quickstep to 1 to serve

Either way, it is exactly the same result: two libero replacements in the same dead ball. Bob was spot on in how the libero tracker records it, and in how the scorekeeper doesn't.

refnrev Wed Oct 01, 2008 08:51pm

BITS,
I want to play devil's advocate here for a minute. How exactly do you get a side out with rally scoring? There's no such thing as a side out anymore.

Back In The Saddle Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnrev (Post 540629)
BITS,
I want to play devil's advocate here for a minute. How exactly do you get a side out with rally scoring? There's no such thing as a side out anymore.

It's not easy. Only the best refs can pull it off. :D

Point taken. Technically I should have said something along the lines of LOR/point. However, in my defense, the term "side out" is still in use around here.

mbyron Thu Oct 02, 2008 06:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 540646)
However, in my defense, the term "side out" is still in use around here.

Here too, and I surmise that folks still use the term because (a) they're used to it ("old habits die hard"), and (b) it's more "volleyball" than "get the ball back!"

refnrev Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 540646)
It's not easy. Only the best refs can pull it off. :D

Point taken. Technically I should have said something along the lines of LOR/point. However, in my defense, the term "side out" is still in use around here.

___________________

You hear it every game... players, coaches, fans, everyone! I wonder if they really stop to think about what they are saying.

FMadera Fri Oct 03, 2008 02:46pm

I don't think of it as a big deal.

I think side-out is used to refer to "the end of a team's term of service." I don't think it's meant to denote winning a rally without scoring a point.

I have a bigger problem with the terms "5-1" or "6-2" with teams that use a libero. Think about it...

Back In The Saddle Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMadera (Post 541036)
I don't think of it as a big deal.

I think side-out is used to refer to "the end of a team's term of service." I don't think it's meant to denote winning a rally without scoring a point.

I have a bigger problem with the terms "5-1" or "6-2" with teams that use a libero. Think about it...

My (admittedly limited) understanding is that 5-1 refers to the team having 5 hitters and 1 setter. But the unspoken implication is that not all 5 can actually be hitters at the same time, only the 2 or 3 in the front row. What am I missing? :confused:

FMadera Sun Oct 05, 2008 02:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 541129)
My (admittedly limited) understanding is that 5-1 refers to the team having 5 hitters and 1 setter. But the unspoken implication is that not all 5 can actually be hitters at the same time, only the 2 or 3 in the front row. What am I missing? :confused:

The libero shouldn't be considered a hitting option.

Retrozetti Mon Oct 06, 2008 06:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMadera (Post 541277)
The libero shouldn't be considered a hitting option.

Felix, I couldn't agree more... and yet, I can't begin to count the times (almost always High School) that the setter sets the Libero, over and over. I swear, it's almost like they drill that play. As an observer, I think the coach is playing with fire, especially when that Libero jumps to attack the ball, because then I have to check for height of the ball at contact.

Hmm, Felix definitely has a point about the 5-1 and 6-2, but maybe we split the difference and call it "4 and a half-1" and "5 and a half-2" :D


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