over throw

[Boss 21]

Bases loaded one out, batter hits single to left field, outfielder throws to third, ball goes in dead territory, ump awards batter third base coach argues, how is that possible. Please help me understand that.

[SNIPERBBB]

2-base award.

If the BR has legally touched first base before the Time of The Throw, then (s)he gets third.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Boss 21

Bases loaded one out, batter hits single to left field, outfielder throws to third, ball goes in dead territory, ump awards batter third base coach argues, how is that possible. Please help me understand that.

For her own coach to argue, it implies the "batter" reached home on the play and the ump placed her back at 3rd. So the hit had to be really deep, meaning very likely reaching 1st before the throw.


Side issue: Do some rules govern the placement of runners on a dead ball by the lead runner; if R3 had not reached 2nd?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Side issue: Do some rules govern the placement of runners on a dead ball by the lead runner; if R3 had not reached 2nd?

I think ASA bases the award on the lead runner. Example if 2 runners are between second and third at TOT, award the lead runner whatever base is appropriate and then go to the next runner in reverse sequence.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I think ASA bases the award on the lead runner. Example if 2 runners are between second and third at TOT, award the lead runner whatever base is appropriate and then go to the next runner in reverse sequence.

I was not specific, any besides ASA.

[Manny A]

I can't imagine why the third base coach would argue unless he/she just didn't know the rules. As others have alluded, the award is two bases from the time the ball leaves the fielder's hand (not, as some believe, when the ball enters dead ball territory), so depending on where the runners were when the left fielder threw the ball is what you use to base your ruling.

Given this was a bases-loaded clean single, I'm thinking that when the left fielder released the throw to third, she was making a play on the runner from first base, and that the batter-runner was already past first base. So the award of third to the batter-runner would be appropriate. If, however, the play was on the runner who started at second base (hard hit ball to left, and the left fielder is making a force-play throw to third), then there's no way the batter-runner ends up at third on the award.

[jmkupka]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I think ASA bases the award on the lead runner. Example if 2 runners are between second and third at TOT, award the lead runner whatever base is appropriate and then go to the next runner in reverse sequence.

If at TOT, both runners were between 2B & 3B, why wouldn't both be awarded home? I can see a "reverse sequence" situation if both were between 1B & 2B, since there's only room for 1 runner on 3B.

[MD Longhorn]

Why are two of you implying an offensive coach argued? Of course the coach that argues is a defensive coach.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

If at TOT, both runners were between 2B & 3B, why wouldn't both be awarded home? I can see a "reverse sequence" situation if both were between 1B & 2B, since there's only room for 1 runner on 3B.

"When two runners are between the same two bases, the award is based on the position of the lead runner." ASA pg. 98

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Why are two of you implying an offensive coach argued? Of course the coach that argues is a defensive coach.

I think that the lack of punctuation is confusing some people.

I'm reading this: "...ball goes in dead territory, ump awards batter third base coach argues..."

as: "...ball goes in dead territory. Ump awards batter third base. Coach argues..."

It's not the "third base coach" that's arguing.

Here, have some extra punctuations. I have plenty of extras !...,,,''':::;;;????......!!''''...,,,!!!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

"When two runners are between the same two bases, the award is based on the position of the lead runner." ASA pg. 98

You might want to read RS #38. IMO, the purpose for this rule was to not hold bases available from the trail runner, but to avoid the trail runner's position from pushing a preceding runner to a base not awarded.

In the question offered by jmkupka, both runners would be awarded home since two bases were available to both at the time of the throw.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You might want to read RS #38. IMO, the purpose for this rule was to not hold bases available from the trail runner, but to avoid the trail runner's position from pushing a preceding runner to a base not awarded.

In the question offered by jmkupka, both runners would be awarded home since two bases were available to both at the time of the throw.

I did read it and concur. My reply allowed for the situation where a fielder loses possession of a ball on an attempted tag that goes into DBT.

I think I used the phrase "award bases as appropriate".

But yes, on a throw to DBT where both runners are between 2 & 3 at TOT, I'd award both runners home.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I can't imagine why the third base coach would argue unless he/she just didn't know the rules. As others have alluded, the award is two bases from the time the ball leaves the fielder's hand (not, as some believe, when the ball enters dead ball territory), so depending on where the runners were when the left fielder threw the ball is what you use to base your ruling.

Given this was a bases-loaded clean single, I'm thinking that when the left fielder released the throw to third, she was making a play on the runner from first base, and that the batter-runner was already past first base. So the award of third to the batter-runner would be appropriate. If, however, the play was on the runner who started at second base (hard hit ball to left, and the left fielder is making a force-play throw to third), then there's no way the batter-runner ends up at third on the award.

Why? Depending on the level of play (which isn't stated in the OP, it is possible that even on a hard hit ball, the runner from second could still be in between 2nd and 3rd and the LF could be making a play while the runner from first is already past second and the batter-runner is past first.

I have seen it in my Wednesday co-ed league. We have a team with a female who bats 10th in the lineup who due to knee issues can hardly run. The leadoff male batter is a former state placer in the sprints in track as is the female who bats second in the lineup. They both have speed and can reach the next base well prior to the runner who would be on second would make it to third. I have seen her thrown out from the outfield on multiple occasions.

As an aside, she is also an official who I have worked with in volleyball many times.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

As an aside, she is also an official who I have worked with in volleyball many times.

Mods delete this post: beer + forum != "should post".

[jmkupka]

All right folks, once and for all for my edification...

R1 on 1B, off on the pitch, liner caught by F6, airmails the throw over F3's head.

Proper mechanics when the ball enters DBT?
I've usually said "Dead ball! Runner gets 3rd!"

At the time I'm stating this, sometimes R1 is still returning to 1B.
Is my wording correct? Is the timing of this information important, or completely irrelevant?

Regarding the runner, I know she's responsible for knowing her baselining duties, but could the wrong wording be considered misleading?