Helping a partner with his call

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by youngump

One from this weekend has been on my mind a while.
I'm behind the plate when R1 tries to steal second. The throw beats her by a good bit and she dives to the outside. From my position (I got maybe a couple of steps up the line to increase my angle), it looked like F6 didn't manage to get a tag on her.

A couple of steps up the line to increase your angle? As PU, you should be moving up the line after the throw by the catcher so that you have the call at third should the ball get past F4/F6. Moving just a couple of steps to get a better angle on the play is really not your responsibility, because it could cause you to be late getting to third.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

A couple of steps up the line to increase your angle? As PU, you should be moving up the line after the throw by the catcher so that you have the call at third should the ball get past F4/F6. Moving just a couple of steps to get a better angle on the play is really not your responsibility, because it could cause you to be late getting to third.

I'm not sure this is right. I went and double checked and if I read the right part of the manual the correct behavior is to step out from behind the plate and read the play. I thought by the book that the call at third belonged to the BU (there's no exception that I could find but I'd be happy to be corrected.)
It is common around here to read this play and if the BU can't get to third to the PU will sometimes call them off (deviating only if we communicate). But it wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood how to do something.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I will agree and disagree with both of you.

Manny, we are always expected to be a second set of eyes with a different angle on any play (remembering we are there to help our partner only if asked). Same as U1 with R1 on 1st stepping up to watch the tag on a steal even though U3 is there waiting. You never know .....

As to a possible following play at third, YoungUmp, it is the BU's call ONLY for the understanding that there are times when PU can get trapped by the catcher and the ball, and cannot immediately and automatically always have that play. That said, it is EXPECTED that PU WILL verbalize and take the play if not trapped. Go to the holding zone by default; but the same few steps that get you prepared can allow you the angle for help at 2nd.

[Rich]

Just another example in the idiotic practice of a coach getting a second opinion cause he didn't like the call.

The BU should've sent the coach (quickly) back to the dugout. "No, I'm not asking him. Let's play."

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As to a possible following play at third, YoungUmp, it is the BU's call ONLY for the understanding that there are times when PU can get trapped by the catcher and the ball, and cannot immediately and automatically always have that play. That said, it is EXPECTED that PU WILL verbalize and take the play if not trapped. Go to the holding zone by default; but the same few steps that get you prepared can allow you the angle for help at 2nd.

I think you and I are saying the same thing. But let me restate it a little bit so you can correct me where I've still got it wrong.

The book says that the BU takes the call. But the PU has nothing to do so he should move out. Then watch the tag at second. Then if necessary move up to third and call off BU. The book doesn't mention this but it's expected and the way it's done. Pre-gaming this is a good practice.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

I think you and I are saying the same thing. But let me restate it a little bit so you can correct me where I've still got it wrong.

The book says that the BU takes the call. But the PU has nothing to do so he should move out. Then watch the tag at second. Then if necessary move up to third and call off BU. The book doesn't mention this but it's expected and the way it's done. Pre-gaming this is a good practice.

Now we are saying the same thing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

The book says that the BU takes the call. But the PU has nothing to do so he should move out. Then watch the tag at second. Then if necessary move up to third and call off BU. The book doesn't mention this but it's expected and the way it's done. Pre-gaming this is a good practice.

Can someone please point out where in the manual it states this is the BU's call?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Can someone please point out where in the manual it states this is the BU's call?

Disclaimer, I was reading last years manual. But here's what I had. There are no special exceptions for stealing as to who has what runners. Therefore, the BU has the last runner into third. (Which in this case is the runner who stole second). There is a section on stealing that says that the plate umpire should move out from behind the plate and read the play but it doesn't assign the call at third.
Maybe I just missed a section?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

Disclaimer, I was reading last years manual. But here's what I had. There are no special exceptions for stealing as to who has what runners. Therefore, the BU has the last runner into third. (Which in this case is the runner who stole second). There is a section on stealing that says that the plate umpire should move out from behind the plate and read the play but it doesn't assign the call at third.
Maybe I just missed a section?

The "last runner" is on a batted ball situation.

No one in their right mind would expect the BU to cover a subsequent play at 3rd after a botched play @ 2nd. Shy of being physically disabled on the pitch, there is no excuse for the PU to not be able to cover 3rd.