Question: helping your partner(s)

[Y2Koach]

I don't this particular topic is in the rulebook so I figured this would be the best place to ask about it. What limits do officials have as far as helping their partner on obvious calls that are missed? In the past, I have seen obvious out-of-bounds calls where the first official will signal one way and the partner will come in and let his partner know he saw something more definitive and change the call. I always appreciate officials that work together like this to get a call correct.

I've also seen plays where one official obviously gets it wrong, and the partner will admit as much but will not help out or change the call. Specifically, I was watching a game a while back and a player came flying in on an offensive rebound. The defense had tried to take a charge so there were several bodies piled up underneath the basket. The flying offensive rebounder (the kid was figuratively flying! (i LITERALLY hate the misuse of LITERALLY!)) grabbed the rim as there was nowhere to land beneath him. Lead official calls a Technical foul. As the Lead is reporting the foul, the coach asks "what did he do??" and the Lead says "you know he can't hang on the rim like that!"

As the FTs are being administered, the Trail official on that play is now in front of the scorers area and the coach asks him why its a Technical foul when there were 2 or 3 bodies on the ground under the basket. The Trail says, "yeah, I saw that coach". Coach asks why he can't go help his partner and the Trail says "it's his call".

What are the rules/etiquette/limits in helping out a partner? Does it depend on the type of call?

[Adam]

First of all, I'm right there with you on the "literally" thing. That, and "myself."

Anyway. Generally, I wait for a partner to ask for help unless I'm certain there's an aspect he didn't see. OOB calls, back court violations, etc. I've given information and allowed my partner to stick with it or change his call. I volunteered info as lead on a BC violation my partner called once. But it was a special circumstance when the ball had come out of the lane and I knew the T didn't see the defense knock it into the BC.

However, if I'm certain he saw everything and think he simply made an error in judgment, I'm waiting for him to request more info. Otherwise, it is his call.

Does this help?

[Y2Koach]

It does help. In the situation above, if you would have seen the pile of bodies on the floor and your partner called the T for hanging on the rim, would you talk to your partner and see if he would change the call?

[Adam]

If I could have caught him on his way to the table or before? Yes.

If I knew he was "less experienced" than me? Yes. Actually, it depends more on how I view his standing in the association. If, for example, it's the association president, or a long time varsity official respected by everyone, I'm probably not touching it if I am sure he saw the bodies. If I think there might be reason to think he didn't see the bodies, I might offer the info.

Did they communicate prior to the calling official reporting the T? This is when I would have offered the info.

If it's another JV official, I'll try to catch him.

Really, in this particular play, there are quite few dynamics at play.

[Y2Koach]

Not sure about the specifics, but from my vantage point, it seemed like the Lead was watching the shot after the airborne shooter released the shot. That's why i assumed he didn't call a block or charge. I have seen the Trail ref do my games in prior years and know that he has more experience than the Lead, although the Lead was older in age. There was no communication between officials, and the Lead (calling official) made a very emphatic "hand T" when he made the call and without hesitation headed straight to the scorers table.

[Adam]

At the very least, I'm sure this lead to a nice little talk in the locker room afterwards.

Looks like L didn't really give T an opportunity to help him out. In this situation, it sounds like you almost have to let him live with his own call.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

I don't this particular topic is in the rulebook so I figured this would be the best place to ask about it. What limits do officials have as far as helping their partner on obvious calls that are missed? In the past, I have seen obvious out-of-bounds calls where the first official will signal one way and the partner will come in and let his partner know he saw something more definitive and change the call. I always appreciate officials that work together like this to get a call correct.

I've also seen plays where one official obviously gets it wrong, and the partner will admit as much but will not help out or change the call. Specifically, I was watching a game a while back and a player came flying in on an offensive rebound. The defense had tried to take a charge so there were several bodies piled up underneath the basket. The flying offensive rebounder (the kid was figuratively flying! (i LITERALLY hate the misuse of LITERALLY!)) grabbed the rim as there was nowhere to land beneath him. Lead official calls a Technical foul. As the Lead is reporting the foul, the coach asks "what did he do??" and the Lead says "you know he can't hang on the rim like that!"

As the FTs are being administered, the Trail official on that play is now in front of the scorers area and the coach asks him why its a Technical foul when there were 2 or 3 bodies on the ground under the basket. The Trail says, "yeah, I saw that coach". Coach asks why he can't go help his partner and the Trail says "it's his call".

What are the rules/etiquette/limits in helping out a partner? Does it depend on the type of call?

In both cases above you can give your partner "what you have". From that point on it's up to your partner to change the call.

I don't think it's a good idea to ever say "it's his call" or "yeah I saw that". If asked I say "talk to the official who made the call".

[Karin]

Had a situation in a National Schools Championship,I was with a young inexperienced partner.FIBA had just begin the ruling where a payer who is flopping could be given a T.
Close game-outcome decides who is first or second in section,great match ups.Partner on lead low in area 5 -whistle blows and I had no idea what the call was likely to be-possibly a hand or leg out of cylinder that I didn't have an angle on.He came out with a T on the defender for a flop.
Coach is ballistic,the rookie was rattled.I took him to the middle of court,instructed captains etc to stay away while I talked him through his call.I suggested that while he might be technically correct,there had been no contact and that the interpretation of application that had been given was that a warning for flopping was to be given first.He thought about it said I cant take it back now--can I?I did the talking to coaches and captains-told the coach that we were taking T off his player-relieved coach.Opposition coach started to protest until I said that if it stood I would have to back my partner and call every flop in the game a T.Coach more than happy not to let that happen.

In the post game I went over the situation with my partner and I think some learning came from it-he is still reffing and is now a more experienced official.I still think I put the game first but also helped my partner out of a hole.

[Ignats75]

I'm not sure you can reverse a T once its called.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I'm not sure you can reverse a T once its called.

Sure you can, as long as it's the calling official that's doing the reversing. It's no different than reversing an OOB call if you find out that you had it wrong.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ignats75

I'm not sure you can reverse a T once its called.

Up until it's reported and in the book, sure you can.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Up until it's reported and in the book, sure you can.

Hmmmmmm......

According to case book play 6.4.1SitD, you can can change an AP mistake up to the time that the ball touches a player in-bounds on a throw-in. Why would changing a technical foul call be different?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

What are the rules/etiquette/limits in helping out a partner? Does it depend on the type of call?

A general guideline: If there's something outside the calling official's focus that affects the call, I go to him / her. If the entire call is right in his/her area, then I leave it alone, unless asked.

So, on the OOB call -- if I saw a tip that happened away from the OOB line, I provide the help. On the hanging on the rim call, the official had it all.