contacting fair ball while in foul ball territory

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Yeah, but her intent wasn't malicious.

There's a similar situation where a fielder enters a dugout to tag a runner. She certainly does that intentionally, but in the spirit of what the rule really wants to punish, this is not considered intentionally carrying the ball into DBT.

Malicious is not the word I would use, but the way I am reading this, she certainly can be preventing a runner from getting more than one base by reaching over the fence and killing the ball rather than taking the time to hop the fence (or let another fielder get the ball and throw it in.

Let's say the B/R has past 2nd when the fielder recovers and reaches over the fence for the ball. Ruling this as a catch and carry would hold her at 3rd base instead of scoring (which would probably be the outcome if the fielder had to hop back over the fence or if F8 had to get the ball.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Let's say the B/R has past 2nd when the fielder recovers and reaches over the fence for the ball. Ruling this as a catch and carry would hold her at 3rd base instead of scoring (which would probably be the outcome if the fielder had to hop back over the fence or if F8 had to get the ball.

Perhaps. Or maybe the BR would have been gunned at home for an out. It seems the one-base award would be the only equitable thing here.

[EsqUmp]

Intentionally is, and has been for at least 20 years, been interpreted to mean that the player's actions were taken for the purpose of creating a dead ball. The case play is when the catcher runs after a batter-runner on an uncaught third strike and enters the dugout to tag the batter-runner (not realizing that she is out for going into the dugout). Yes, she intentionally ran into the dugout. No, she did not intentionally enter the dugout for creating a dead ball. Use common sense when interpreting intent. People say you can't judge intent. I say that's bullshit as normal every day people do it thousands of times a day on jury duty.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Intentionally is, and has been for at least 20 years, been interpreted to mean that the player's actions were taken for the purpose of creating a dead ball.

Yeah, that's what I meant when I used the word "malicious", which I agree was a poor choice. It sounded better than saying, "Yeah, but her intent wasn't intentional."

[sp279]

That "Malicious" (at least in my case) has only been used in sparing case such as a runner bowling over 1B or a catcher? In both these cases a runner has extra time to think about it while running it out. In any organization, let's even use 18U's fielding a ball, thinking about where you are, conceiving in one's mind "Oh, I can know this is a rule breaker" while play is going on....I haven't seen that many savvy players. Most act automatically doing what they "think" is right at the time and leave the coaches to argue it with us.

Out of curiosity, not arguing the base awards (since I've never had this come up); Manny is there sections in USSSA, NFHS that even cover the example given?