Run scores?

[RulesGeek]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Try the section in your rule book that starts with:

No run shall be scored if the third out of an inning is the result of: ..............

NCAA 6.1.3, ASA 5.5-B

Thanks. I got hung up on the language "When the appeal results in the third out ... any run scored prior to the appeal counts."

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And the hands are part of the bat.

Haven't you seen the bats that you buy with the hands already attached?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd, R4 on 1st. 1 out. Fly ball hit to F9 caught for 2nd out, they throw back to first to get R4 who never tagged and was going back to base but didn't make it in time. R1 crossed the plate before the legal appeal of R4. Run scores, right?

I have a handful of umpires who are saying it's a force out and no runs can score on a force out. I say it's not a force out, it's an appeal play and a timing play.

Tell those umpires to read the definitions in the rulebook. I think all codes say something similar to : if a batted ball is caught before it hits the ground there can be no force plays.

Also, in the NFHS rulebook it clearly states in the appeals definitions section that tag up appeals are timing plays, and runs that scored prior to the appeal would count.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Tell those umpires to read the definitions in the rulebook. I think all codes say something similar to : if a batter ball is caught before it hits the ground there can be no force plays.

Also, in the NFHS rulebook it clearly states in the appeals definitions section that tag up appeals are timing plays, and runs that scored prior to the appeal would count.

Okay, since you all seem to think I haven't told them to read the rule book - this is how bad it can be. They read the rules and bring it to me to ARGUE that since she doesn't need to be tagged it's a force. They think I don't know what I am talking about. They think I'm misinformed.

I sent out an email to all umpires because one of the umpires ruled that the run rule was 11, when it is 12. Another ruled that the runner gets one base on an overthrow. After sending my clarification to the RULE - I get questions like, "is that overthrows from the outfield? The infield is still 1 base right?" Or, "I know the rule book says that subs can not re-enter." Or, "is the run rule 15 after 5 and 12 after 3"? Or, "I told the coach that the runner must slide".

I was talking to 4 umpires who had the rule book in their hand and was arguing the idea that the play in question was a force out because she didn't need to be tagged. I said, you don't have to believe me, but if I can post this question to an umpiring board where prominent umpires from ASA who have sat on rules committees can respond and answer, or even if other umpires can answer, will that help to clarify? When they said yes, I agreed to post. They didn't know any of the "muckimucks" as one of you so "graciously" pointed out, but they wanted to see other's opinions to try to prove me wrong. It worked exactly as I thought it would.

A big part of my work is to gain credibility. I'm doing my best to see that happen. Maybe then will things change for the better.

Disappointed that some here question my rationale for posting, and others for thinking that I haven't suggested "reading the freakin rules" to these guys. But there is a way to go about it so that they WILL read the rules and learn something.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

Disappointed that some here question my rationale for posting, and others for thinking that I haven't suggested "reading the freakin rules" to these guys. But there is a way to go about it so that they WILL read the rules and learn something.

I think some of the comments like "read the rules" were sarcastic about your colleagues; rather than criticism of you.

AFAIC, even w/o the rule books, a runner can't be forced unless a runner or runners behind them are forcing them.

Citation: sandlot, age 9