Run scores?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Not to put words in LI's mouth but.....
Knowing LI and having had the opportunity to work some games with him over the past few years in different venues and under different codes.....I have no doubt that he knows the rule.

I think perhaps(?) what he was trying to accomplish in writing the post the way he did was to be able to show the "handful of umpires" in his local association who are being stubborn and obstinate with him about this sitch being a force play our replies to his question as a way to illustrate to these dunderheads just how wrong they all are about a very basic rule.

No need to ask us here. The ASA and NCAA rule books talk of forces going away when the batter-runner is put out in a couple of places:

RS #1.J: "When the batter-runner is put out prior to reaching first base, all force outs are eliminated."

RS #1.K: "Tag-Ups. When a runner leaves a base too soon on a caught fly ball and returns in an attempt to retouch, this is considered a time play and not a force out. When the appeal is the third out, all runs scored in advance of the appealed runner and prior to the legal appeal count.

RS #21: "It is not possible to have a force out on a caught fly ball as the batter-runner is no longer a runner."

RS #43: "An appeal play on a runner leaving a base too soon on a caught fly ball is a time play, not a force. When the appeal results in the third out of an
inning, any run scored prior the appeal counts."

NCAA 7.1.5.3: "If the appeal is the third out, and is successfully made on a base runner not forced to advance at the time of the infraction, all runs scored by base runners before the legal appeal was made, would count. Note: If a base runner leaves a base before a fly ball is first touched and returns in an attempt to retag, this is considered a timing play and not a force out."

NCAA 12.28.6: "If a base runner leaves a base too soon on a caught fly ball and returns in an attempt to retag, this is considered a timing play and not a force out. If the appeal is the third out, all runs scored by base runners in advance of the appealed base runner and scored ahead of the legal appeal would count."

I would add NFHS rulings, but since they apparently don't apply in NY, I wont bother.

If that "handful of umpires" won't believe LI after he shows them what's in the ASA and NCAA books, they sure as hell won't listen to us.