Poorly written / trick questions on umpire tests

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

"ONE" set???

NCAA, ASA, NFHS, USSSA, PONY...

We use the mechanics we find best for high school softball. We aren't bound by what a bunch of old timers want to do. We don't force umpires from using old mechanics that have been proven are out of date (except by the old timers). We don't subscribe to clonism like so many other associations.

What a putz. "Proven", by whom, you and Jay? Check with Corky on that?

You been chasing parked cars without a helmet again?

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What a putz. "Proven", by whom, you and Jay? Check with Corky on that?

You been chasing parked cars without a helmet again?

Don't knock anything until you have seen it or tried it! Like these:

1. Our set up at 1B with none on- instead of setting up 18 deep or whatever, here they/we teach to set up at [B]12[B] ft (if you are a setter, and 16 if you are a pacer). And then on ordinary infield grounders, instead going WAY out to 45 degrees, we literally take two, maybe 2 1/2 steps in from the line, and BAM - we can see EVERYthing on that play. You NEVER get blocked out with that angle. Yes, its a baseball mechanic - so what?? It WORKS. If you doubt this - TRY it - even just as a drill. Might open your eyes a little!

2. This is the one that just KILLS ASA old timers - On routine base hits to the outfield, with no one on - the roller the goes just under the SS's glove, the one or two bouncer to CF, etc - instead of having to bust our butts inside on a button hook, WE rim along the outside of the diamond 20-25 ft, while watchng the B/R. It is our opinion that you can actually follow the B/R naturally with your eyes, you are avoiding any kind of trafic that might be happening with the fielders, and quite frankly we think that button hooking in that situation is so much false hustle. By the time you get into the infield, 90% of the time that B/R has already turned back, and is talking to her coach. In our case, we are already just about at B, and we are ready to keep playing. Is it lazy? I will tell you right now, our local clinician comes right out and says that it is...BUT....he also points out that if you are button hooking ALL the time on plays like that, you are using a lot of unnecessary energy that you might need in the 6th/7th inning. I also know for a fact our local guy has been asked to show it to several ASA guys, who have expressed interest.

Again, don't knock it until you've tried it....ASA changes the playing rules ALL the time, and IMHO, they have NOT changed our mechanics to keep up with the changes in the game - especially at the JO/HS level.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What a putz. "Proven", by whom, you and Jay? Check with Corky on that?

You been chasing parked cars without a helmet again?

More like 2000 high school umpires, plus thousands of additional umpires who don't just step on an ASA field.

By the way, how are things going for ASA down there in Delaware?

[PATRICK]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

Don't knock anything until you have seen it or tried it! Like these:

1. Our set up at 1B with none on- instead of setting up 18 deep or whatever, here they/we teach to set up at [B]12[B] ft (if you are a setter, and 16 if you are a pacer). And then on ordinary infield grounders, instead going WAY out to 45 degrees, we literally take two, maybe 2 1/2 steps in from the line, and BAM - we can see EVERYthing on that play. You NEVER get blocked out with that angle. Yes, its a baseball mechanic - so what?? It WORKS. If you doubt this - TRY it - even just as a drill. Might open your eyes a little!

I took the new umpire class. They were not teaching this. They were teaching traditional 18-21 if you walk the line, or 16-18 if you come set. But they were also discouraging walking the line.

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

2. This is the one that just KILLS ASA old timers - On routine base hits to the outfield, with no one on - the roller the goes just under the SS's glove, the one or two bouncer to CF, etc - instead of having to bust our butts inside on a button hook, WE rim along the outside of the diamond 20-25 ft, while watchng the B/R. It is our opinion that you can actually follow the B/R naturally with your eyes, you are avoiding any kind of trafic that might be happening with the fielders, and quite frankly we think that button hooking in that situation is so much false hustle. By the time you get into the infield, 90% of the time that B/R has already turned back, and is talking to her coach. In our case, we are already just about at B, and we are ready to keep playing. Is it lazy? I will tell you right now, our local clinician comes right out and says that it is...BUT....he also points out that if you are button hooking ALL the time on plays like that, you are using a lot of unnecessary energy that you might need in the 6th/7th inning. I also know for a fact our local guy has been asked to show it to several ASA guys, who have expressed interest.

NYSSO didn't invent working the rim, (don't use "rim" as a verb, google it and see what comes up!) I've beem working the rim for over 5 yrs.

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

Again, don't knock it until you've tried it....ASA changes the playing rules ALL the time, and IMHO, they have NOT changed our mechanics to keep up with the changes in the game - especially at the JO/HS level.

ASA has trained most, if not all, of the softball umpires I know. Their mechanics work. If it ain't broke, don'/t fix it!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

Don't knock anything until you have seen it or tried it! Like these:

1. Our set up at 1B with none on- instead of setting up 18 deep or whatever, here they/we teach to set up at [B]12[B] ft (if you are a setter, and 16 if you are a pacer). And then on ordinary infield grounders, instead going WAY out to 45 degrees, we literally take two, maybe 2 1/2 steps in from the line, and BAM - we can see EVERYthing on that play. You NEVER get blocked out with that angle. Yes, its a baseball mechanic - so what?? It WORKS. If you doubt this - TRY it - even just as a drill. Might open your eyes a little!

2. This is the one that just KILLS ASA old timers - On routine base hits to the outfield, with no one on - the roller the goes just under the SS's glove, the one or two bouncer to CF, etc - instead of having to bust our butts inside on a button hook, WE rim along the outside of the diamond 20-25 ft, while watchng the B/R. It is our opinion that you can actually follow the B/R naturally with your eyes, you are avoiding any kind of trafic that might be happening with the fielders, and quite frankly we think that button hooking in that situation is so much false hustle. By the time you get into the infield, 90% of the time that B/R has already turned back, and is talking to her coach. In our case, we are already just about at B, and we are ready to keep playing. Is it lazy? I will tell you right now, our local clinician comes right out and says that it is...BUT....he also points out that if you are button hooking ALL the time on plays like that, you are using a lot of unnecessary energy that you might need in the 6th/7th inning. I also know for a fact our local guy has been asked to show it to several ASA guys, who have expressed interest.

Again, don't knock it until you've tried it....ASA changes the playing rules ALL the time, and IMHO, they have NOT changed our mechanics to keep up with the changes in the game - especially at the JO/HS level.

You are assuming that I haven't used other mechanics. You would be incorrect. Been there, done that, even at an ASA Major NC at the direction of the UIC.

From your post, it seems you haven't been kept up to date or just haven't read the umpire manual lately. Then again, I'm less than impressed with how it has been homogenized. But that is why there are schools and clinics, to take the training the next step, from text to practice. ASA doesn't tell you to go to 45 degrees. And the 18-21 set up is just as much to keep umpires from going too deep. I have often had to get umpires to get closer. I don't care if they get closer as long as the umpire is not in a position which may deter F3 from making a play on a batter ball. Remember, ASA gives you starting points. If you walk the line, that 18-21 should be closer to 13-15 on the step into the field.

AFA as rimming the infield, it is "easier", doesn't mean it is better. It is also situational that is very successful with non-aggressive play. But if you have an aggressive team, U1 is going to spend a good portion of his/her game sprinting across the infield to catch up with a play. I've rarely have had a problem getting inside. Those who do are often the umpire who sets up way too deep or has never stopped being a spectator. If I had my druthers, I'd rather be inside and relax to see the plays and easily adjust to any subsequent play. IMO, the false hustle happens between the plays. That is when I will take my breather, yet still be in position to start the next play. And if you are talking FP, it is even easier. That is a small field, real small field that any umpire should easily be able to navigate. Try working Men's Major on an 80' field. Do that and you will feel like you are walking when you get back to covering the little field.

Are there times when runners or fielders change direction and cut you off? Sure, and that is going to happen no matter which mechanic set you prefer or are working. But a good umpire does what they do every other time the players don't cooperate, adjust. And if that adjustment means I stay outside, and that is rarer than my wife's steak preference, I adjust to get the best look I can from where I am just as any umpire would do no matter what system was being used.

And, BTW, I also teach that people should not confuse running with hustle. I can get where I need to be quite often with an easy lope, if that. BTW, if you are only 12' from 1B, how can it take you so long to get inside, its only 3-4 steps? I button hook all the time and do not miss the runner touching the base and am in a good position to see a throwback. And my knees are terrible, so a healthy individual should be able to perform this easily.

I will admit, it is just as much about timing and ability to read the play, and that comes from experience

[Andy]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

... Modified "C" is good for those games where you'll never see a play at 3rd base....

Curious....how do you know that you will have one of these games?

What is the "modified C" position anyway?

[PATRICK]

Originally Posted by Andy

Curious....how do you know that you will have one of these games?

What is the "modified C" position anyway?

Same as U3 rotated, but in a 2man system.
Similar to baseball going back to B with two outs.
I'll never use it.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You are assuming that I haven't used other mechanics. You would be incorrect. Been there, done that, even at an ASA Major NC at the direction of the UIC.

From your post, it seems you haven't been kept up to date or just haven't read the umpire manual lately. Then again, I'm less than impressed with how it has been homogenized. But that is why there are schools and clinics, to take the training the next step, from text to practice. ASA doesn't tell you to go to 45 degrees. And the 18-21 set up is just as much to keep umpires from going too deep. I have often had to get umpires to get closer. I don't care if they get closer as long as the umpire is not in a position which may deter F3 from making a play on a batter ball. Remember, ASA gives you starting points. If you walk the line, that 18-21 should be closer to 13-15 on the step into the field.

AFA as rimming the infield, it is "easier", doesn't mean it is better. It is also situational that is very successful with non-aggressive play. But if you have an aggressive team, U1 is going to spend a good portion of his/her game sprinting across the infield to catch up with a play. I've rarely have had a problem getting inside. Those who do are often the umpire who sets up way too deep or has never stopped being a spectator. If I had my druthers, I'd rather be inside and relax to see the plays and easily adjust to any subsequent play. IMO, the false hustle happens between the plays. That is when I will take my breather, yet still be in position to start the next play. And if you are talking FP, it is even easier. That is a small field, real small field that any umpire should easily be able to navigate. Try working Men's Major on an 80' field. Do that and you will feel like you are walking when you get back to covering the little field.

Are there times when runners or fielders change direction and cut you off? Sure, and that is going to happen no matter which mechanic set you prefer or are working. But a good umpire does what they do every other time the players don't cooperate, adjust. And if that adjustment means I stay outside, and that is rarer than my wife's steak preference, I adjust to get the best look I can from where I am just as any umpire would do no matter what system was being used.

And, BTW, I also teach that people should not confuse running with hustle. I can get where I need to be quite often with an easy lope, if that. BTW, if you are only 12' from 1B, how can it take you so long to get inside, its only 3-4 steps? I button hook all the time and do not miss the runner touching the base and am in a good position to see a throwback. And my knees are terrible, so a healthy individual should be able to perform this easily.

I will admit, it is just as much about timing and ability to read the play, and that comes from experience

I agree 99%

The 1 % is that my ex wife ate her steak well done so everything else would be considered rare

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by PATRICK

I took the new umpire class. They were not teaching this. They were teaching traditional 18-21 if you walk the line, or 16-18 if you come set. But they were also discouraging walking the line.

NYSSO didn't invent working the rim, (don't use "rim" as a verb, google it and see what comes up!) I've beem working the rim for over 5 yrs.

ASA has trained most, if not all, of the softball umpires I know. Their mechanics work. If it ain't broke, don'/t fix it!

They should be teaching 18-21 feet, so that's good. They should not be discouraging walking the line, so that's bad.

I'm glad to hear you work with rim, as that has been a PONY mechanic going on its 8th season.

Carburetors weren't broken, but I prefer fuel injections.

[azbigdawg]

This thread finally gave me insight to the thought process of EsqUmp.......

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Andy

Curious....how do you know that you will have one of these games?

What is the "modified C" position anyway?

Experience is your first clue. The next clue is when they walk the bases loaded to start the game. Another might be that the catcher hasn't even attempted to throw a runner out trying to steal. Some teams are poor enough that the coaches agree not to steal so that they can keep the force on in hopes of getting an out - that tends to eliminate the pick off at 3rd base.

In these types of games, virtually all of the outs come at 1st base and a few may come at 3rd base. So we allow the umpire to move just to the 1st base side of 2nd base. It's basically a philosophy of going where the action is, rather than standing 90 feet away from it the whole game.

If things change, umpires should adjust, the same way players adjust to the situation at hand (or at least ought to).