Dropped 3rd Strike - Throw to 1st

[jmkupka]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

While is isn't necessarily "illegal", how can you be sure without knowing from where the throw was coming?

Maybe I'm missing something, but the use of the orange bag is only for throws coming from foul territory on the 1B side of the field. I don't see any indication of that in the OP

... as well as errant throws from elsewhere, correct? A bad throw from F6 that pulls F3 to the orange side is legal...

Based on past threads, seems to me the only time F3 can't use orange is if she sets up there before the throw is released from any fielder other than F2.

[charliej47]

The best I can remember is that if the throw pulls F3 to the foul side, then F3 can touch the orange for the out no matter who throws the ball.

[Manny A]

There's a difference between F3 setting up on the orange bag, and being pulled to the orange bag.

Mike's point is that rules on the double-first (ASA 8-2-M, FED 8-10, etc.) only allow F3 to set up on the orange bag when the throw is coming from the first-base side of foul territory. Should the uncaught third strike go to the catcher's left into the third-base side of foul ground, the rules do not allow F3 to set up on the orange bag.

The problem I have with the rules is that the BR may not know where the loose ball went. If she sees F3 set up on the orange side on an uncaught third strike, and she beats the throw and touches only the white bag, is she susceptible to an appeal for missing first if the throw came from the third-base side of foul territory? Or would you rule obstruction on F3, even if she is well into foul territory (her foot is touching the side of the bag furthest into foul, giving the BR a straight path at the bag)?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The problem I have with the rules is that the BR may not know where the loose ball went. If she sees F3 set up on the orange side on an uncaught third strike, and she beats the throw and touches only the white bag, is she susceptible to an appeal for missing first if the throw came from the third-base side of foul territory? Or would you rule obstruction on F3, even if she is well into foul territory (her foot is touching the side of the bag furthest into foul, giving the BR a straight path at the bag)?

8-2-M-4:
On any force out attempt from the foul side of first base, the defense and the batter-runner may use either the white or colored portion of the base.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

8-2-M-4:
On any force out attempt from the foul side of first base, the defense and the batter-runner may use either the white or colored portion of the base.

That means the throw is originating from the right side of the catcher in foul territory, such as near the on-deck circle next to the first base dugout.

What if the throw is coming from the opposite on-deck circle?

[BretMan]

I see what you're getting at, Manny. I know this has been discussed before, but I don't remember what the consensus was.

The rules say that the batter-runner may use the white base in cases where the defense is legitimately using the colored base, using one of the exceptions to the rule.

But they don't specifically say what happens when the defense is using the colored base in conflict with the rules and that forces the batter-runner to switch over to the white.

It seems like obstruction must come into play.

[Linknblue]

Just so we're clear...........I was talking about a dropped 3rd strike that was in front of the catcher behind the plate. BR heads to first, 1st baseman chooses to sets up on orange bag cuz runner is running inside baseline to first I suppose (or was taught this on dropped 3rd strike), catcher picks ball up in front of her behind plate and then throws to first in foul territory.........choice was to do it this way by defense, no errant throws. I suppose you could say ball was in foul territory when catcher moved to foul territory by choice to make throw.

All I'm asking is that.........Is this a play that falls under the white/orange errant throw even if it's intentional?