Dropped third strike

[ref5678]

Had this situation come up in a 11-12 year old tournment game. FED Rules Runners second and third 1 out 2-2 count pitch comes in batter swings and misses and the catcher drops the ball, un aware of this the batter turns towards the dugout when finally one of his teamates screams run to first by this time however he has already reached the on deck circle. Now according to the rule book it says a batter is not out on a dropped third strike until he has reached the dugout or bench area. The kid beat the throw to first, so now the opposing coach comes out and begins to argue that the on deck circle is part of the bench area. I cant seem to find a rule defining bench area, does it mean the exact same thing as dugout or not.

[bluezebra]

That's a new one on me. "Coach, can your players sit in the circle without helmets on during live ball action?" "NO". "Then why would you think it's part of the dugout?"

Bob

[Jerry]

The "Dugout" or "Bench" is a defined term. As a matter of practice, I rarely confine players to the on-deck circle.

[spillguy]

Neat!
Coach! park your tail in the on-deck circle and don't come out here again please.

[ref5678]

thats what i thought just wanted to be sure thanks guys

[chiefblue86]

ref5678, Although you specify Federation rules were being used, the following OBR applies to the dropped 3rd strike situation: 6.09 "The batter becomes a runner when---(b) The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base is unoccupied, or (2) first base is occupied with two out; CASEBOOK: When a batter becomes a base runner on a third strike not caught by the catcher and starts for the dugout, or his position, and then realizes his situation and attempts then to reach first base, he is not out unless he or first base is tagged before he reaches first base. If, however, he actually reaches the dugout or dugout steps, he may not then attempt to go to first base and shall be out."

In other words, until he reaches DEAD BALL TERRITORY, the batter may attempt first on a dropped 3rd strike. And in all the years I've umpired, the batting circle has NEVER been considered as a dead ball area. Therefore, your guy could have run to first even though he had walked into the batting circle. Period.

[chiefblue86]

ADDENDUM---Defining the "Dugout/Bench" area and the "On-Deck" circle.

First, OBR in 2.00 BENCH and DUGOUT defines the "dugout/bench" area as ". . . the seating facilities reserved for players, substitutes and other team members in uniform when they are not actively engaged on the playing field."

Observation: no mention of a "batting circle/on-deck circle/next-hitters circle" being part of the dugout/bench.

Second, while OBR has not official defined any "on-deck" or "batter" circle in its Definition of Terms, 2.00, it does talk about the "Next Batter's Box" in 1.00, Objectives of the Game. Specifically, in 1.04, The Playing Field. Here it diagrams the locations of the "Next Batter's Box(es)." It shows them being a 5' diameter, each located 37' left and right from the center of home plate. While it doesn't specify the distance behind home plate, history, experience, and casual observation---coupled with an IQ of at least 10 or higher---has indicated they are in fact some distance behind home plate in foul territory.

Could they therefore actually be located within the "dugout/bench" area? Yes, I suppose, technically speaking. But probably not, for three reasons:

1) OBR 1.08 stipulates that the player's benches/dugouts shall not be less than 25' from the base lines, and that they shall be roofed and shall be enclosed at the back and ends. And while this doesn't necessarily prove that the batter's box is not in, or cannot be in, the bench/dugout area, I think it is pretty safe to assume they aren't if for no other reason than the fact that the diagram shown in OBR 1.04 does not either show any benches in the immediate area of the "Next Batter's Box(es)," but also makes no mention of the fact that the "Next Batter's Box(es) are in fact part of the dugout/bench area.

2) The "Next Batter's Box" usually contains the next batter who will hit, so the purpose for this box is to allow the on-deck batter to loosen up by swinging a bat or two to get the ol' blood flowing, etc. Therefore, it seems logical that making DAMN SURE that the "Next Batter's Box" is NOT located in the dugout/bench area might in fact be a pretty good idea. Since swinging bats in here might cause some problems for the pacing manager or the sleep walking relievers.

3) The "Next Batter's Box" is usually marked with a chalked circle about 5 or 6 feet in diameter, just about large enough for one person to occupy. The bench/dugout area, on the other hand, is big enough to accomodate a minimum of 25 players, one manager, 12 coaches, a bat boy, and numerous other personal who may be pertinent to running a baseball team. So, it stands to reason that the batter's box probably cannot---or at least should not---be considered as part of the dugout/bench area.

Finally, there is reason number (4). The "Next Batter's Box" is round. The "dugout/bench" area is rectangular (or trapezoidal, depending on funding). And all of us probably realize---even our coach---that you can't stick a round peg into a square (or rectangular) hole. Therefore, the "Batter's Box" won't fit into the "dugout."

There are indeed places the round "batter's box" may be stuck, particularly into those places that are also round---assuming they are big enough to handle it, of course. So, the next time the coach comes out to suggest that the "Next Batter's Box" is stuck in the dugout/bench area, you might want to suggest that he stick it somewhere else.