Dropped 3rd Strike - Throw to 1st

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Out.

Assuming non-malicious, a warning that offense is responsible to avoid collisions.

yes, non-malicious. F3 standing on/over both bases didn't lead to this? Doesn't the rule state that F3 must use the white and BR must go to the colored base in this situation? The BR was doing that. The F3 was not. She was in the way.

Just asking...

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

yes, non-malicious. F3 standing on/over both bases didn't lead to this? Doesn't the rule state that F3 must use the white and BR must go to the colored base in this situation? The BR was doing that. The F3 was not. She was in the way.

Just asking...

No part of what you described included the runner being hindered before she was out. As long as F3 was on white, nothing requires her to be exclusively on white, unless doing so hinder/impedes the BR.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Out.

Assuming non-malicious, a warning that offense is responsible to avoid collisions.

I don't go around throwing out warnings unless I am actually going to take action on a repeated act.

Here, you have a defender standing where they don't belong and your going to warn a the offensive team because there was contact?

For that matter, why don't you warn the defensive team not to set up where they don't belong?

Since you issued a warning, if that same exact play happens again, please tell us what your call is going to be.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

No part of what you described included the runner being hindered before she was out. As long as F3 was on white, nothing requires her to be exclusively on white, unless doing so hinder/impedes the BR.

Expanding on prior reply.

I suspect we are all focusing differently on the wording used by LI in the posted play. What is a "half second"? A fast/above-average runner gets to 1st base ~3.0 seconds (I believe 2.6 is the fastest ever acknowledged as legitimately recorded; anything above 3.5 is considered plodding by clinics). With that information, a "half second" is ~10 feet from first.

If you see an out by 10 feet (two+ full strides), I agree that the BR had more than enough time to be accountable to avoid a chest-to-chest collision. A warning for an unsporting act is appropriate; 10 feet is almost enough space to be considered malicious.

If, as I suspect some of you are interpreting "half second" to mean a much closer play (a split second, an instant, foot above the bag when ball hits mitt), then we have a BR realistically attempting to be safe and running to the base she is supposed to, and not initiating/making avoidable contact that is unsporting. No warning, bad defensive play, but just a train wreck, and out.

But, unless she alters her path to avoid, and/or slows down to minimize the unavoidable contact, before the ball arrives, I still have an out without obstruction as long as the ball arrives first. I'm not confident enough umpires would read a path alteration prior to the ball arriving to avoid that contact as obstruction, nor do I believe enough BR's consider that option versus running to the base with their head down.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Expanding on prior reply.

I suspect we are all focusing differently on the wording used by LI in the posted play. What is a "half second"? A fast/above-average runner gets to 1st base ~3.0 seconds (I believe 2.6 is the fastest ever acknowledged as legitimately recorded; anything above 3.5 is considered plodding by clinics). With that information, a "half second" is ~10 feet from first.

If you see an out by 10 feet (two+ full strides), I agree that the BR had more than enough time to be accountable to avoid a chest-to-chest collision. A warning for an unsporting act is appropriate; 10 feet is almost enough space to be considered malicious.

If, as I suspect some of you are interpreting "half second" to mean a much closer play (a split second, an instant, foot above the bag when ball hits mitt), then we have a BR realistically attempting to be safe and running to the base she is supposed to, and not initiating/making avoidable contact that is unsporting. No warning, bad defensive play, but just a train wreck, and out.

But, unless she alters her path to avoid, and/or slows down to minimize the unavoidable contact, before the ball arrives, I still have an out without obstruction as long as the ball arrives first. I'm not confident enough umpires would read a path alteration prior to the ball arriving to avoid that contact as obstruction, nor do I believe enough BR's consider that option versus running to the base with their head down.

The play was "bang bang" half a stride...but the ball did beat her to the bag. I was PU and I not only was watching the throw down to first and the path of the BR for possible 3 foot lane interference but also noted that she "put her head down and ran" to the orange bag. My partner and I got together after the play and discussed whether she altered her path to the bag. The answer was no. We ruled that it was an out. We explained the call to the OC and the DC and there was no argument. But the OC asked me the rule interpretation after the game. He said that he didn't think she could set up on both bags like she did.

Thanks for the explanation. And no, there was no need for a warning to the offense. What would I be warning her for?