ASA Should Be Ashamed

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by shagpal

Wearing properly logo'ed uniforms is part of the cost of working. Umpiring is an avocation, not an occupation. The ASA is sandbagged with paycheck umpires, something that could easily be fixed if they made small adjustments to policy and enforcement.

Its those same paycheck umpires that have no business working college ball, and that is what the NCAA dictated years ago.

You totally missed to point of my post. The two tournaments I referred to are not sanctioned by any organization (or ones that at least manufactures any uniforms). But umpires are still wearing logos because that's what the only hats/shirts they have purchased for umpiring.

We understand you have a burr in one of your orifices about ASA for some reason. We get it, we understand, move on with another argument. The ASA isn't the only organization that has umpires that are out to collect money. I believe you can find that in every organization. Politics exists in every organization as well.

And what exactly did the NCAA "dictate years ago"?

[shagpal]

No, I think YOU missed the point.

Its not just the ASA, its their sloppy umpires that wear the brand simply to garner the paychecks when they have no business doing so. If you let them get away with it, they do it, and they do.

Originally Posted by Big Slick

You totally missed to point of my post. The two tournaments I referred to are not sanctioned by any organization (or ones that at least manufactures any uniforms). But umpires are still wearing logos because that's what the only hats/shirts they have purchased for umpiring.

We understand you have a burr in one of your orifices about ASA for some reason. We get it, we understand, move on with another argument. The ASA isn't the only organization that has umpires that are out to collect money. I believe you can find that in every organization. Politics exists in every organization as well.

And what exactly did the NCAA "dictate years ago"?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

My theory is purely economics. ... The local guys have ASA and State HS hats, and I keep harping on not wearing logo'ed hats. They won't purchase them. Most wear a plain jacket, so the shirt really isn't an issue. But I have made numerous attempts to change the hats.

Really? You can get plain hats at Academy for $6. This can't be the reason.

Personally, I have TWO shirts and TWO hats with the ASA logo - and more than 10 shirts and at least 6 hats with no logo at all (and, of course, one TASO hat). I find myself more prepared for whatever may come along if I have unlogo'd gear handy.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

My annoyance is ...snip ... the change for change sake stuff that just costs money for no good reason

My annoyance is ...snip ... the change for change sake stuff that just costs money for no good reason

My annoyance is ...snip ... the change for change sake stuff that just costs money for no good reason

The latest is USSSA's 4th shirt vendor in 5 years and caps only 2 years old being obsolete.

Get ready. There are new NFHS-logoed umpire shirts for next year. And our state changed the logo that goes on the shirt, as well as came out with a newly-logoed hat (we wore plain hats before). So the state patches I have at home to iron on new shirts are obsolete now.

ASA has also come out with newly logoed hats and shirts.

There should be a wear-out period for old stuff in these organizations. When I was in the military, new uniform requirements would come out on occasion. We could continue to wear the old uniforms for 3-5 years to ease the burden of purchasing the new items, and to not screw the troops who just bought the old items without realizing new ones were coming out.

Amateur sports organizations should do the same thing. Don't screw umpires who just bought shirts and hats by making them have to wear the new stuff immediately. Allow a phase-out period so that it's acceptable to have crews with a mix of the old and new for a few seasons.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Really? You can get plain hats at Academy for $6. This can't be the reason.

Working with unlogo'ed hat is relatively new here. We had an abundance of ASA tournaments in the past, and high school ball. Therefore, that was the gear. So when this tournament came around, most couldn't/wouldn't lay out the necessary expense to get plain clothing.

Plus, I didn't say it was the only reason, just another reason. It is all systemic anyway, umpires that do care about not looking like a clown are those that put the time, effort and money into becoming better.

[shagpal]

I have yet to see an NCAA umpire wear NCAA or conference uniform, HS umpire wear NFHS or assoc uniform, USSSA umpire wear utrip uniform, or any other sanction umpire wear uniform out of sanction. BUT, I frequently see ASA umpires wearing ASA at non-ASA specific sanction events. I say its an ASA and ASA umpire problem, but you insist otherwise.

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Working with unlogo'ed hat is relatively new here. We had an abundance of ASA tournaments in the past, and high school ball. Therefore, that was the gear. So when this tournament came around, most couldn't/wouldn't lay out the necessary expense to get plain clothing.

Plus, I didn't say it was the only reason, just another reason. It is all systemic anyway, umpires that do care about not looking like a clown are those that put the time, effort and money into becoming better.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shagpal

I have yet to see an NCAA umpire wear NCAA or conference uniform, HS umpire wear NFHS or assoc uniform, USSSA umpire wear utrip uniform, or any other sanction umpire wear uniform out of sanction. BUT, I frequently see ASA umpires wearing ASA at non-ASA specific sanction events. I say its an ASA and ASA umpire problem, but you insist otherwise.

For once I somewhat agree with you. I don't see NCAA gear worn elsewhere. I don't see USSSA worn elsewhere. I DO see, however, the TASO hat worn elsewhere --- usually by 1st year high school guys who think they are big-timing the others by showing up wearing it. Interestingly, by the 2nd year these same guys realize how stupid they looked and cut it out.

On the other hand, at least around here, it's severely frowned upon by assignors to allow people to wear the ASA hat at a non-ASA event... and if you try wearing one at a NFSA event, it's likely to get you booted for the entire weekend. That said, on the RARE occasion that someone wears something they are not supposed to, it's ASA gear. I suspect, at least in the cases of these rare individuals, that it's because ASA is the only organization training newbies - and the newbies are the ones that don't know any better until someone tells them.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by shagpal

I have yet to see an NCAA umpire wear NCAA or conference uniform, HS umpire wear NFHS or assoc uniform, USSSA umpire wear utrip uniform, or any other sanction umpire wear uniform out of sanction. BUT, I frequently see ASA umpires wearing ASA at non-ASA specific sanction events. I say its an ASA and ASA umpire problem, but you insist otherwise.

Well, I've seen umpires from NY wear hats, jackets and shirts with NY specific logos while not even in NY. And even better, they wear baseball associations for softball games. I've seen guys wear high school uniforms out of association (and for multiple sports, including basketball and football). This isn't a problem unique to ASA logo gear. ASA may be more prevalent, but it is far from unique.

My point: It says more about the umpire rather than an association.

[shagpal]

OK, now I understand, you are putting that emphasis on the umpires. I won't disagree with you, umpires doesn't get a free pass. I am putting far more emphasis on the ASA than most staunch ASA guys can stomach, but that's just me and makes for great diversity of viewpoints.

My point is, the ASA owns its problems like it or not, and taking an oblivious approach and passing the buck doesn't help matters. So many give the ASA a free pass for what is so obviously self made problems.

I sometimes wonder that those that staunchly defend the ASA aren't really the problem.

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Well, I've seen umpires from NY wear hats, jackets and shirts with NY specific logos while not even in NY. And even better, they wear baseball associations for softball games. I've seen guys wear high school uniforms out of association (and for multiple sports, including basketball and football). This isn't a problem unique to ASA logo gear. ASA may be more prevalent, but it is far from unique.

My point: It says more about the umpire rather than an association.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by shagpal

I have yet to see an NCAA umpire wear NCAA or conference uniform, HS umpire wear NFHS or assoc uniform, USSSA umpire wear utrip uniform, or any other sanction umpire wear uniform out of sanction. BUT, I frequently see ASA umpires wearing ASA at non-ASA specific sanction events. I say its an ASA and ASA umpire problem, but you insist otherwise.

I've seen more than I want to of umpires wearing their high school uniforms doing other games. I've seen the same in ASA games, PONY games, and others. I've even seen NCAA conference logos in non-NCAA games. I get tired of pee-ing into the wind. When I see that and verify with the tournament directors/authorities that they are not going to fix it - I don't work at those tournaments again - and I let them know why.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The latest is USSSA's 4th shirt vendor in 5 years and caps only 2 years old being obsolete.

And three different colors to boot!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by shagpal

OK, now I understand, you are putting that emphasis on the umpires. I won't disagree with you, umpires doesn't get a free pass. I am putting far more emphasis on the ASA than most staunch ASA guys can stomach, but that's just me and makes for great diversity of viewpoints.

My point is, the ASA owns its problems like it or not, and taking an oblivious approach and passing the buck doesn't help matters. So many give the ASA a free pass for what is so obviously self made problems.

I sometimes wonder that those that staunchly defend the ASA aren't really the problem.

I'm hardly a "staunch ASA guy". Last year, I didn't even register with ASA.

However, as a front-line witness to the sanctioning food fight that went on here over the previous 5+ years, "ASA" (including ASA national all the way down to the state commissioner) has no authority over the individual umpire. He is an independent contractor and he owns his own gear. He can wear his shirt and hat anywhere he wants to. The ASA official-dom cannot even "punish" bad actors by not assigning them games or tournaments, since that is all done through independent assignors, who work agreements with the leagues and the tournaments, not with ASA. The state commissioner tried to lay down the law regarding ASA-logoed gear being used at non-ASA games, but, in reality, he had no law to lay down. The only hammer the ASA has is with their championship play assignments.

What do expect ASA to actually do? They don't control the umpires. They don't control the leagues. They don't control most of the tournaments. They don't control the assignors. The "don't care" umpires who wear whatever they have to any ol' game don't want to do an ASA national anyway, so even that "stick" is a wet noodle to them.

NCAA & the NCAA conferences have a much bigger stick, since they control the game assignments (I think... college guys here can correct/elaborate if they wish). You can't really compare schools (college or HS) to independent leagues sanctioned through ASA.

And, nobody would wear USSSA shirts to a non-USSSA event because, well, they are RED!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Aw, heck, Mike, for years and years we were ASA-only for girls fastpitch in this state, but with all the state, league, and tournament rules added on / changed, you might not recognize it! Just a few: bat the roster, can play with 8 players with no out when the #9 slot rolls around, umpires have authority to eject fans, strict no-profanity rule against players, coaches, AND fans... We'd have coaches AND umpires that when it came time for championship play, neither had any clue how to manage a line up.

ASA sanction does not preserve the "purity" of the rules.

It does when the person running the tournament says it does.

But do you know what the real problem is? Laziness and apathy. People expect others to tolerate their laziness and others just don't care.

Personally, I'm a believer that if you choose to do something, it is your responsibility to find a way to learn and understand whatever it is, not everyone else's responsibility to put up with you when you do not.

If you want to be a coach, be a coach and do it right. Otherwise, sit down. If you want to be an umpire, do it right. Otherwise, take up another pastime.

The people in this country seem to have adopted a point of satisfaction and success with a manta of, "well, it's good enough".

This is evident in almost everything we do, not only on the field, but in many parts of our lives.

[shagpal]

In think you are touching on the exact area I have issue with, so you are not so far from my disbelief as you thought.

How does the ASA function properly when it is so divorced and disconnected from the games? My point is that it doesn't, and the fault is its own. The structure it setup to isolate itself from the people locally was decided entirely from within. The distance it has created is its own choosing, you can't blame the umpires for that, but we all pay that price.

What I find so precious about the ASA it is so entirely inclusive, everyone is welcome to participate in softball. But it does so not at its own expense, but everyone else's. This cannot be a one size fits all, at least not possible the way I see it. SP and FP are two different games culturally, so different treatment is appropriate. Stricter governance and control for the good of the game is not that hard, unless you just don't care.

But just blaming umpires, that won't get you very far when no one is listening. Perhaps its not the "don't care" umpires, but the don't care governing body that is the problem.

Originally Posted by Dakota

I'm hardly a "staunch ASA guy". Last year, I didn't even register with ASA.

However, as a front-line witness to the sanctioning food fight that went on here over the previous 5+ years, "ASA" (including ASA national all the way down to the state commissioner) has no authority over the individual umpire. He is an independent contractor and he owns his own gear. He can wear his shirt and hat anywhere he wants to. The ASA official-dom cannot even "punish" bad actors by not assigning them games or tournaments, since that is all done through independent assignors, who work agreements with the leagues and the tournaments, not with ASA. The state commissioner tried to lay down the law regarding ASA-logoed gear being used at non-ASA games, but, in reality, he had no law to lay down. The only hammer the ASA has is with their championship play assignments.

What do expect ASA to actually do? They don't control the umpires. They don't control the leagues. They don't control most of the tournaments. They don't control the assignors. The "don't care" umpires who wear whatever they have to any ol' game don't want to do an ASA national anyway, so even that "stick" is a wet noodle to them.

NCAA & the NCAA conferences have a much bigger stick, since they control the game assignments (I think... college guys here can correct/elaborate if they wish). You can't really compare schools (college or HS) to independent leagues sanctioned through ASA.

And, nobody would wear USSSA shirts to a non-USSSA event because, well, they are RED!

[shagpal]

Mike, remember one thing...

When you point the finger as you have done, three of your own fingers are pointing right back at you. If you wanted to hold parties accountable, what seat do you sit?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It does when the person running the tournament says it does.

But do you know what the real problem is? Laziness and apathy. People expect others to tolerate their laziness and others just don't care.

Personally, I'm a believer that if you choose to do something, it is your responsibility to find a way to learn and understand whatever it is, not everyone else's responsibility to put up with you when you do not.

If you want to be a coach, be a coach and do it right. Otherwise, sit down. If you want to be an umpire, do it right. Otherwise, take up another pastime.

The people in this country seem to have adopted a point of satisfaction and success with a manta of, "well, it's good enough".

This is evident in almost everything we do, not only on the field, but in many parts of our lives.