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Old Tue Jun 11, 2013, 04:01pm
rj rj is offline
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Unpire Struck / Live ot Dead Ball?

High School Semi-Final game; 2-2 bottom of the sixth; 2 outs; 3-man; I'm 1st Base umpire. Runner on 2nd; 1st baseman playing just inside of 1st base; 2nd baseman is about ten feet left of 2nd and playing close to the outfield grass so she's forced me to be about six feet off her left shoulder a couple of steps further out. The batter rips a bullet line drive about four feet high straight at me; no chance to get out of the way and strikes me on the hip as I move left. Ball bounces towards first base at which time the 1st baseman picks it up and makes an errant throw to the plate so the winning run scores.
The defensive coach wants a dead-ball call but the three umpires get together and agree the ball passed an infielder other than the pitcher (in this case the 1st baseman) and there was no chance another fielder could make a play on the ball; therefore the ball is live and the run counts. The game was written-up in three local papers as ending on a controversial call.
Would love to hear veteran opinions.
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Old Tue Jun 11, 2013, 04:12pm
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Call seems correct.

but I might question your starting positioning (without being there). You shaded to the 'left' of F4 and 6 feet from her (yes, you were behind her as you should be), But I would question why so far away from 2nd base (and F4) Maybe shading a bit closer to F4 (perhaps 2 to 3 feet off of her, if you feel you 'have to' shade on the left side . Mechanically, the preferred position with only a runner on 2nd for U1 would be shaded to the 2nd base side of F4 (right shoulder).

Again, I was not there so you may have thought your shading gave you a better positioning.
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Old Wed Jun 12, 2013, 04:19am
rj rj is offline
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I was off her left shoulder because she was playing close to 2nd base as if they were going to try and pick-off the runner at 2nd.
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Old Wed Jun 12, 2013, 04:30am
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Simple answer is don't get hit in a FP game. Has never happened to me.....close in SP..........

I cannot imagine not being able to get out of the way.......even being old with bad hips.
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Old Wed Jun 12, 2013, 05:01am
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Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue View Post
Simple answer is don't get hit in a FP game.
And even if you do, you should never be positioned where there would be a remote possibility it would be umpire interference in the first place.
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Old Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:46am
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
And even if you do, you should never be positioned where there would be a remote possibility it would be umpire interference in the first place.
As I read his post, he wasn't. Defensive coach wanted it called that, but it wasn't.

In this case, "behind" refers to a line drawn between the two defensive players on either side (F3 and F4), NOT a line parallel to the baseline where F4 can push the BU further back. It is only umpire interference if struck with batted ball in front of that line; and he wasn't.

So, not umpire interference, therefore he is now part of the field. Live ball, play on.
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Old Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:26pm
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
In this case, "behind" refers to a line drawn between the two defensive players on either side (F3 and F4), NOT a line parallel to the baseline where F4 can push the BU further back.
Is that the same standard softball uses for base runners being hit by batted balls?

In baseball circles, this is what's known as the "string theory", which is NOT ascribed as the determining factor, at least not in most baseball organizations. When the baseball rule calls for a batted ball passing an infielder, it basically has to be a batted ball that the infielder had a reasonable opportunity to field. So a batted ball between F3 and F4 that hits a runner is still an infraction.

Just curious how it works in softball.
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Old Thu Jun 13, 2013, 09:24am
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The separate rules point out the difference, although the string theory applies to both.

8.1-E(5). It is runner interference even if it contacts the runner after passing a fielder and another fielder has the opportunity to make an out.

8.1-E(7). It is umpire interference ONLY if it contacts the umpire before passing a fielder other than the pitcher. Other fielders are not a factor; only if it has passed one fielder.
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Old Thu Jun 13, 2013, 12:05pm
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
8.1-E(7). It is umpire interference ONLY if it contacts the umpire before passing a fielder other than the pitcher. Other fielders are not a factor; only if it has passed one fielder.
I almost posted this exact same thing, but for some reason in the back of my mind I seemed to recall a FED difference. So, I looked it up. Sure enough, FED says that it can be umpire interference if the ball has passed a fielder, then it hits the umpire, but another fielder still has a play.
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Old Thu Jun 13, 2013, 01:04pm
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Originally Posted by BretMan View Post
I almost posted this exact same thing, but for some reason in the back of my mind I seemed to recall a FED difference. So, I looked it up. Sure enough, FED says that it can be umpire interference if the ball has passed a fielder, then it hits the umpire, but another fielder still has a play.
Which in NFHS is essentially the same for an ump as for a runner.
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Old Thu Jun 13, 2013, 01:45pm
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Which in NFHS is essentially the same for an ump as for a runner.
Yeah, we've been promoted... from dirt to player!!
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