Live or dead ball?

[Robert G]

Runner on 1st, pitcher balks & throws the ball wild to first in a pick off attempt.
Is the ball immediately dead or live?
If it is live & he is thrown out at second does the out stand or does he automatically get second.

Thanks
Robert G

[Buster]

If you are playing OBR rules the ball is live and the R1 is protected to second base on the balk. If he passes second base and is then thrown out, he is OUT.
If, however, you are playing FED rules the ball is dead immediately on a balk.

Buster

[BJ Moose]

Answer was stated. What you would actually DO if the wild throw was recovered, and the play and tag was made at 2nd:

What would look like a TAG of a runner for an OUT would get from you (BU) only a call of "TIME!", at which time you award the base, the base he is already at.

Has anyone seen this in a game. Play as stated, BALK on wild pickoff to 1st. Now you announced "BALK!!" good and loud (as you should)... so fielders (many many fielders) chase ball LEISURELY since they think that BALK bellow killed the ball (OBR please).. and runner scampers to 3rd.

Coach: You called BALK!
BU: Oh you heard that, heh?

[Bfair]

Originally posted by BJ Moose

Has anyone seen this in a game. Play as stated, BALK on wild pickoff to 1st. Now you announced "BALK!!" good and loud (as you should)... so fielders (many many fielders) chase ball LEISURELY since they think that BALK bellow killed the ball (OBR please).. and runner scampers to 3rd.

Coach: You called BALK!
BU: Oh you heard that, heh?

I really haven't seen that, as I recall.
What I have seen.......is the ball go to right, and (everybody thinking the ball is dead) seen F9 or F3 just mope their way after the ball with R1 stopping at 2nd base.
He could have probably made it to home if he cared to....just by trotting instead of running hard.

Too many out there playing the game are just clueless.
Usually they are just as ignorant of rules whether on offense or defense.

Just my opinion,

Freix

[Thom Coste]

Originally posted by Bfair


Too many out there playing the game are just clueless.
Usually they are just as ignorant of rules whether on offense or defense.

Too many out there playing the game are suffering from rules confusion - and that includes a number of umpires.

The balk causes the ball to become dead in FED, and many of these players spend a lot of time playing under those rules. In addition, the balk rules are stricter in FED, and these players SEE more balks enforced when playing under those rules. So it's easy for them to get mixed up.

Moose, I *have* seen a runner from first advance to third following a balk and overthrow (OBR), only to have my partner send him back to second. Now there's *no* excuse for that!

My opinion.

Thom

[umpirefour]

here in michigan at high school the ball is dead at the pro level it is live and you can take the result of the play.(optional) the runner is protected to secomd base because of the balk.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by umpirefour
here in michigan at high school the ball is dead at the pro level it is live and you can take the result of the play.(optional) the runner is protected to secomd base because of the balk.

There is no "option" on a balk -- it's either enforced or ignored by rule

[Bfair]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Mills

To me, a wild throw is one that eludes the fielder. What say you all?

I agree with you, Jim. I think what you are saying that the throw must be one resulting from the action associated with the balk.

As an example, if F1 balks attempting to pickoff R1 and throws the ball to foul territory, then the runner may advance. However, if F1 steps to 1B and stops his delivery because R1 is advancing to 2nd, but then throws into center attempting to retire R1 at 2nd, then the ball is dead and R1 is awarded 2nd base. R1 would not be allowed to continue "at his own risk" to 3rd.

The balk was for not delivering to 1B.......the subsequent throw made afterward to 2nd was not part of the initial balking motion and therefore is irrelevant. The ball became dead when F1 stepped to 1B and did not deliver there.

Just my opinion,

Freix

[Gee]

When the pitcher balks but continues his pitch/throw the play ends when the receiving fielder CATCHES the ball. If the throw is errant and not caught the play continues until continuous action ends.

When I was coaching (OBR) I had a sitch where the pitcher balked before coming home, he continued his motion and pitched. The batter clocked it. The BU tried to stop him from running and I kept yelling for him to keep going. He finally slid into home safe but the run wasn't allowed.

Both umps said the ball was dead at the time of the balk(No FED in the state). I told them they were wrong and asked them if they would like to see the rule from the book in my back pocket. Of course they refused. I protested the game at that time but it wasn't heard as we lost the game and that was not a deciding factor to the outcome of the game.

I remember that happening to the Yanks several years ago. Skowron was on second and the pitcher balked but pitched. The batter singled but Skowron heard the balk call and didn't try to advance, he could have scored on the hit.

Balk, Skowron awarded third and the batter returns. Forgot what happened after that. G.

[Rich Ives]

Your protest should have been heard. It's the protest committe who denys it if it didn't affect the outcome, not someone on the field. The ruling needed to be made that "the ruling on the field was incorrect, but as it didn't affect - - yada yada"

[JJ]

Skowron? Didn't the Moose play in the 60's? Whew! Nice to discover I'm only "several" years old.....smiling...

GBA