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-   -   Unpire Struck / Live ot Dead Ball? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/95256-unpire-struck-live-ot-dead-ball.html)

rj Tue Jun 11, 2013 04:01pm

Unpire Struck / Live ot Dead Ball?
 
High School Semi-Final game; 2-2 bottom of the sixth; 2 outs; 3-man; I'm 1st Base umpire. Runner on 2nd; 1st baseman playing just inside of 1st base; 2nd baseman is about ten feet left of 2nd and playing close to the outfield grass so she's forced me to be about six feet off her left shoulder a couple of steps further out. The batter rips a bullet line drive about four feet high straight at me; no chance to get out of the way and strikes me on the hip as I move left. Ball bounces towards first base at which time the 1st baseman picks it up and makes an errant throw to the plate so the winning run scores.
The defensive coach wants a dead-ball call but the three umpires get together and agree the ball passed an infielder other than the pitcher (in this case the 1st baseman) and there was no chance another fielder could make a play on the ball; therefore the ball is live and the run counts. The game was written-up in three local papers as ending on a controversial call.
Would love to hear veteran opinions.

okla21fan Tue Jun 11, 2013 04:12pm

Call seems correct.

but I might question your starting positioning (without being there). You shaded to the 'left' of F4 and 6 feet from her (yes, you were behind her as you should be), But I would question why so far away from 2nd base (and F4) Maybe shading a bit closer to F4 (perhaps 2 to 3 feet off of her, if you feel you 'have to' shade on the left side . Mechanically, the preferred position with only a runner on 2nd for U1 would be shaded to the 2nd base side of F4 (right shoulder).

Again, I was not there so you may have thought your shading gave you a better positioning.

rj Wed Jun 12, 2013 04:19am

I was off her left shoulder because she was playing close to 2nd base as if they were going to try and pick-off the runner at 2nd.

Gulf Coast Blue Wed Jun 12, 2013 04:30am

Simple answer is don't get hit in a FP game. Has never happened to me.....close in SP..........

I cannot imagine not being able to get out of the way.......even being old with bad hips.

Manny A Wed Jun 12, 2013 05:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue (Post 897212)
Simple answer is don't get hit in a FP game.

And even if you do, you should never be positioned where there would be a remote possibility it would be umpire interference in the first place.

AtlUmpSteve Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 897213)
And even if you do, you should never be positioned where there would be a remote possibility it would be umpire interference in the first place.

As I read his post, he wasn't. Defensive coach wanted it called that, but it wasn't.

In this case, "behind" refers to a line drawn between the two defensive players on either side (F3 and F4), NOT a line parallel to the baseline where F4 can push the BU further back. It is only umpire interference if struck with batted ball in front of that line; and he wasn't.

So, not umpire interference, therefore he is now part of the field. Live ball, play on.

Manny A Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 897245)
In this case, "behind" refers to a line drawn between the two defensive players on either side (F3 and F4), NOT a line parallel to the baseline where F4 can push the BU further back.

Is that the same standard softball uses for base runners being hit by batted balls?

In baseball circles, this is what's known as the "string theory", which is NOT ascribed as the determining factor, at least not in most baseball organizations. When the baseball rule calls for a batted ball passing an infielder, it basically has to be a batted ball that the infielder had a reasonable opportunity to field. So a batted ball between F3 and F4 that hits a runner is still an infraction.

Just curious how it works in softball.

AtlUmpSteve Thu Jun 13, 2013 09:24am

The separate rules point out the difference, although the string theory applies to both.

8.1-E(5). It is runner interference even if it contacts the runner after passing a fielder and another fielder has the opportunity to make an out.

8.1-E(7). It is umpire interference ONLY if it contacts the umpire before passing a fielder other than the pitcher. Other fielders are not a factor; only if it has passed one fielder.

BretMan Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 897313)
8.1-E(7). It is umpire interference ONLY if it contacts the umpire before passing a fielder other than the pitcher. Other fielders are not a factor; only if it has passed one fielder.

I almost posted this exact same thing, but for some reason in the back of my mind I seemed to recall a FED difference. So, I looked it up. Sure enough, FED says that it can be umpire interference if the ball has passed a fielder, then it hits the umpire, but another fielder still has a play.

CecilOne Thu Jun 13, 2013 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 897331)
I almost posted this exact same thing, but for some reason in the back of my mind I seemed to recall a FED difference. So, I looked it up. Sure enough, FED says that it can be umpire interference if the ball has passed a fielder, then it hits the umpire, but another fielder still has a play.

Which in NFHS is essentially the same for an ump as for a runner.

Dakota Thu Jun 13, 2013 01:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 897336)
Which in NFHS is essentially the same for an ump as for a runner.

Yeah, we've been promoted... from dirt to player!! :D


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