Bases loaded Homer, Missed Base, Runs?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

(Snip)
NHFS 9.1.1 does not include the verbiage about when the force is determined (time of infraction or time of appeal) and the casebook plays support the interp that since R3 was forced to 2B at the time she missed 2B this appeal is considered a force play and as the third out no runs score. I think we discussed this ASA/NFHS difference about a month ago but I can't find the thread now.

And I have to leave for the ballpark!

Here is the text cut and pasted from the 2011 NFHS SB Case Book:

9.1.1 SITUATION N: R1 is on second base, R2 on first base with one out. B4 hits safely to the outfield. R1 scores, R2 misses second base and is standing on third base when B4 is thrown out at second base. A dead-ball appeal is properly made on R2 for missing second base. The umpire rules R2 out for the third out.
Does R1's run count?
RULING: No. Since R2 was forced to advance to second base, the appealed out at second base was a force out. No runs can score if the third out of an inning is the result of a force out. (8-6-7; 9-1-1 Exception b; 2-1)

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Here is the text cut and pasted from the 2011 NFHS SB Case Book:

This is interesting. I can see this both ways. Certainly the rule about a force out is in play, but at the same time I do see this being a situation where the rule should be that both are considered force outs, thus no runs score.

It's too bad the rules for Fed don't cover this very clearly, as I can see something like this being a situation that could occur. Lord knows, I've already had a bunch of missed base appeals this season.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Here is the text cut and pasted from the 2011 NFHS SB Case Book:

Thanks, Hugo.. by the way for those of you following along in the book at home casebook 9.1.1.N from 2011 is now 9.1.1.O in the 2013 book.

I agree with the philosophy that if a trailing runner is put out prior to the appeal then the appeal should be a time play not a force out. ASA obviously agrees too because they have specifically stated in the rules that determining force or not is based on the situation at the time of the appeal not the time of the baserunning infraction.

The NFHS rules do not have this verbiage and the casebook plays clarify that NFHSs position is that you base the force on the situation at the time of missing the base. If she was being forced to the base when she missed it, NFHS says to consider it a force.