Bases loaded Homer, Missed Base, Runs?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

OK I'll play.

I believe A) B) and C) are same rulings in both ASA and NFHS

A) No runs score as third out was made by BR before touching 1B.

B) No runs score as third out was made by runner forced to advance because batter became a BR.

C) No runes score as third out was made by BR before touching 1B.

D) is the tricky one.

ASA 5.5.B.1 specifically says the force on an appeal play is determined at the time of the appeal not the time of the infraction (missing the base). So while R3 was being forced to 2B at the time she missed 2B, by the time the defense made the appeal the BR had been put out removing the force. The appeal of R3 becomes a time play not a force play so the runs by R1 and R2 score.

NHFS 9.1.1 does not include the verbiage about when the force is determined (time of infraction or time of appeal) and the casebook plays support the interp that since R3 was forced to 2B at the time she missed 2B this appeal is considered a force play and as the third out no runs score. I think we discussed this ASA/NFHS difference about a month ago but I can't find the thread now.

And I have to leave for the ballpark!

I would look to the definition of a force out. When the B-R is retired on the force out, the force is removed on R3. I think in this situation, the timing of the appeals becomes critical. I do agree with that last part about leaving the ballpark. I can see both coaches out on the field arguing this one. I don't see anything in 9-1-1 exceptions that would apply to this situation. The key rule here to me is the definition of a force out. Since the B-R's out, even on appeal, is on a preceding runner, the out of R3 is no longer a force, thus the third out is simply an appeal out for missing the base.