Illegal Pitch-Score?

[rj]

Do they score? I was working the plate at a USSSA FP tournament yesterday. Runners on 2nd & 3rd, no outs when on a 1-1 count I put up the delayed dead-ball sign and declare "Illegal" on a pitch delivered to the plate. The batter hits the pitch, a slow roller to the pitcher, the pitcher picks-up the ball cleanly and looks back the runners at 2nd & 3rd but is late throwing the ball to 1st and the batter/runner is called safe at 1st.
Now, I know the rule for illegal pitch say:
-If the batter does not swing the pitch is declared a ball and the runners advance 1 base.
-If the batter reaches base safely and all runners advance at least one base, the play stands and the illegal pitch is cancelled.
-If the batter does not reach base safely, the coach of the offensive team has the option of taking the results of the play or accepting the effect for an illegal pitch.
But here's my question (I know you were wondering when I was going to get to it) if the runners advance one base on an illegal pitch, when the batter/runner reached 1st successfully but the runners did not advance on the play, do you still award the runners one base? So instead of them still being on 2nd & 3rd, they're now on 3rd & scored?

[UmpireErnie]

I can't speak to USSSA specifically as we don't have it here. But in ASA and NFHS you would still give the offense the choice of keeping the result of the play with bases loaded or taking the IP call advancing R1 to home, advancing R2 to 3B, and returning the batter to the plate with a 2 ball 1 strike count.

The option is not only if the batter fails to reach 1B safely, it applies after any IP in which the ball was put in play unless the batter reaches 1B and all other runners safely advance one base. In that case it's like the IP never happened.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rj

Do they score? I was working the plate at a USSSA FP tournament yesterday. Runners on 2nd & 3rd, no outs when on a 1-1 count I put up the delayed dead-ball sign and declare "Illegal" on a pitch delivered to the plate. The batter hits the pitch, a slow roller to the pitcher, the pitcher picks-up the ball cleanly and looks back the runners at 2nd & 3rd but is late throwing the ball to 1st and the batter/runner is called safe at 1st.
Now, I know the rule for illegal pitch say:
-If the batter does not swing the pitch is declared a ball and the runners advance 1 base.
-If the batter reaches base safely and all runners advance at least one base, the play stands and the illegal pitch is cancelled.
-If the batter does not reach base safely, the coach of the offensive team has the option of taking the results of the play or accepting the effect for an illegal pitch.
But here's my question (I know you were wondering when I was going to get to it) if the runners advance one base on an illegal pitch, when the batter/runner reached 1st successfully but the runners did not advance on the play, do you still award the runners one base? So instead of them still being on 2nd & 3rd, they're now on 3rd & scored?

This is a known omission in the rules... what they want here is option 3, which should fully state, "if the batter does not reach base safely and all runners do not advance one base ... the coach....."

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

I can't speak to USSSA specifically as we don't have it here. But in ASA and NFHS you would still give the offense the choice of keeping the result of the play with bases loaded or taking the IP call advancing R1 to home, advancing R2 to 3B, and returning the batter to the plate with a 2 ball 1 strike count.

The option is not only if the batter fails to reach 1B safely, it applies after any IP in which the ball was put in play unless the batter reaches 1B and all other runners safely advance one base. In that case it's like the IP never happened.

Same outcome stated here would apply to USSSA as well.

[jmkupka]

Bases loaded, pitcher steps to the pitcher's plate, hands come together, hands separate and windup starts. Then she stops (maybe changes her mind, I dunno) and resets.
At this point, I stopped the play, called illegal pitch, ball on the batter & advanced runners.
Was I supposed to allow her to complete her 2nd attempt at the pitch, and wait to see the result of the play?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Bases loaded, pitcher steps to the pitcher's plate, hands come together, hands separate and windup starts. Then she stops (maybe changes her mind, I dunno) and resets.
At this point, I stopped the play, called illegal pitch, ball on the batter & advanced runners.
Was I supposed to allow her to complete her 2nd attempt at the pitch, and wait to see the result of the play?

IIRC, in that situation, once the pitcher begins her pitch (hands come apart), then she stops, she has committed an illegal pitch for not releasing the pitch. This is a dead ball illegl pitch. At this point signal dead ball, and give the appropriate reward.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Bases loaded, pitcher steps to the pitcher's plate, hands come together, hands separate and windup starts. Then she stops (maybe changes her mind, I dunno) and resets.
At this point, I stopped the play, called illegal pitch, ball on the batter & advanced runners.
Was I supposed to allow her to complete her 2nd attempt at the pitch, and wait to see the result of the play?

You wait on situations where the pitch was illegal but still happened - crow hops, leaps, 24", etc. You go ahead and stop it on a situation like you described.