Hit by pitch along with Illegal pitch

Del-Blue · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 03, 2003, 02:25pm

On the other board this question was asked. NFHS

Runner on third, 1-1 count on batter, pitcher commits an illegal pitch. Ball hits batter.What is the call?

I was thinking that the coach would have a choice. Either take the HBP, which puts the batter on first, or the result of the illegal pitch, which would add a ball on the batter, and score a run.

My reasoning, is that since it wasn't just an illegal pitch, the coach would have the option just as if the batter hit the ball didn't reach first and all runners didn't advance one base.

Bob

kellerumps · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 03, 2003, 03:22pm

I would agree with your reasoning.

DownTownTonyBrown · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 03, 2003, 03:43pm

I haven't done any research but at first blush I'm thinking that I should give the offense both the batter runner to 1st and bring the runner from 3rd to home.

I would likely discuss this with my partner before anything happens. If this illegal pitch is from out of the blue (no precedent) and the illegality is that the pitcher's foot "might" have been an inch in front of the rubber... I would likely only award the Hit By Pitch. If the illegality is something that the pitcher has continuously been doing and has been warned about or is an obvious/blatant action outside the rules give the offense both awards.

I'm going to do a little rulebook research...

Steve M · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 03, 2003, 04:25pm

I'm being kind of lazy. Here's what I posted on the eteamz site:

So far as I can find, neither Fed nor ASA cover this situation in their books. But the NCAA does. I'm also looking at this year's rule differences covering ASA, Fed, and NCAA and this situation does not show up as a difference. That means that the effect is the same in ASA, Fed, and NCAA. It is possible that John Bennett missed this one, but he has taken great efforts to be very thourough. The result of an illegal pitch hitting the batter is that both penalties are enforced. All runners are advanced one base AND the batter is awarded 1B Rule 10, Section 8, Article b3 in this year's NCAA book. Score the runner from 3B and award the batter 1B.

Steve M

kellerumps · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 03, 2003, 05:17pm

Thanks for the NCAA ruling...I didn't have a rulebook handy at the time and went with my instincts. 2002 ASA page 86 Rule 6-8-Effect-E says the same thing.

Steve M · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 03, 2003, 05:38pm

No problem, Keller - I missed the ASA. And I always thought ASA was were I was most knowledgable. Duh.

Steve M

bluezebra · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 04, 2003, 02:26am

FED does cover the situation.

My FED Softball Rules Book is 2001. 6.2.3.. PENALTY: EXCEPTION: ....or becomes a base runner, the coach of the team at bat shall have the option of the result of the play or the penalty for an illegal pitch.

A hit batter becomes a base runner. Therefore, in FED, the offensive coach has the option.

Bob

Del-Blue · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 04, 2003, 05:08am

Thanks Guys In 15 years I can't remember ever having that happen.

CecilOne · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Mar 05, 2003, 08:17am

So if it is an option in NFHS, the coach has to choose either the BR at 1st or the run scoring on the IP. That means that the NCAA ruling above does not apply to NFHS as it (both penalties) would mean the BR gets 1st and the runner scores.

Steve M · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 09, 2003, 09:00pm

I updated the thread over on eteamz about this and here's a copy of that.

I spoke with a friend who is just off of Fed's rules committee about the situation talked about earlier. As I said in that post, ASA and NCAA are specific about this - the batter is awarded 1B AND all runners are advanced one base. Fed does not specifically address this. But the situation does not appear in the rules differences book that is "accepted" by all three groups. My friend said to enforce the same penalty in Fed ball that is enforced in ASA & NCAA. Fed should, and probably will, make a clarification to this soon and a rule book change for next year.

Steve M

WestMichiganBlue · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 09, 2003, 09:49pm

I am a FED umpire and like others, I come here to learn and improve my game. But I wonder if I dare make that call in a game because your un-named friend said we should do so. Understand I am not trying to be nasty, but that seems a bit of a stretch when I believe that the rule book does address it quite well.

BlueZebra quoted an old book, but that Exception still exists in 2003 FED book. It is specifically hooked to different sections about different types of illegal pitches. The penalty for an illegal pitch is a "ball and move up one base" UNLESS the pitcher completes the delivery . . . AND the batter hits the ball fair or foul OR becomes a base runner THEN the coach of the team at bat has option: result of play (hit batter, dead ball), or penalty for IP.

Why is that not very clear?
WMB