Use the Force?

[MrRabbit]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

They can't, if it is a force.

And isn't that what you have at second base in the OP?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

And isn't that what you have at second base in the OP?

No, not if the runner physically passed the base.

Think of it this way, if the runner rounded 2B without touching it and was tagged out, would it then be a force then?

[MrRabbit]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, not if the runner physically passed the base.

Think of it this way, if the runner rounded 2B without touching it and was tagged out, would it then be a force then?

No. But the post said...

But she over slides the base (failing to touch the bag at all and is tagged out before getting back to the bag.

I said that this a force for the third out and no run would be scored.

Some of the posters when stating that this would not be a force, I did not say that.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

No. But the post said...

But she over slides the base (failing to touch the bag at all and is tagged out before getting back to the bag.

I said that this a force for the third out and no run would be scored.

Some of the posters when stating that this would not be a force, I did not say that.

You asked if the OP was a force and my response was no.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

No. But the post said...

But she over slides the base (failing to touch the bag at all and is tagged out before getting back to the bag.

I said that this a force for the third out and no run would be scored.

Some of the posters when stating that this would not be a force, I did not say that.

Once he passes the base the force is off.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

No. But the post said...

But she over slides the base (failing to touch the bag at all and is tagged out before getting back to the bag.

I said that this a force for the third out and no run would be scored.

Some of the posters when stating that this would not be a force, I did not say that.

See ASA 8-3-B

When a runner passes a base, the runner is considered to
have touched that base. This also applies to awarded bases.

I know it has been said by others but I will reiterate.....If the runner slid past 2nd....they are considered to have touched the base.

Joel

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

See ASA 8-3-B

When a runner passes a base, the runner is considered to
have touched that base. This also applies to awarded bases.

I know it has been said by others but I will reiterate.....If the runner slid past 2nd....they are considered to have touched the base.

Joel

So, correct me if I'm wrong. All are pretty much in agreement that the run scores on this play, at least in ASA, since:

1. The runner is assumed to have touched second base when she passed it, removing the force
2. The tag of the runner attempting to return to second base is not considered an appeal
3. There is no opportunity to subsequently appeal her miss of second base for an advantageous fourth out

Now, consider a similar play, except that the play is on the BR at first. On the play, F6's throw to first is offline, and the BR avoids F3's tag attempt after F3 catches the errant throw. While she avoids the tag, the BR fails to touch first base while passing it. The BR is unable to return to the bag before F3 tags her. R1 at third touches home well before the tag of the BR.

If I understand RS#1 in the ASA book, the tag of the BR missing first is considered an appeal, and the run would not score, correct?

If that's the case, why the inconsistency between similar plays?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

So, correct me if I'm wrong. All are pretty much in agreement that the run scores on this play, at least in ASA, since:

1. The runner is assumed to have touched second base when she passed it, removing the force
2. The tag of the runner attempting to return to second base is not considered an appeal
3. There is no opportunity to subsequently appeal her miss of second base for an advantageous fourth out

Now, consider a similar play, except that the play is on the BR at first. On the play, F6's throw to first is offline, and the BR avoids F3's tag attempt after F3 catches the errant throw. While she avoids the tag, the BR fails to touch first base while passing it. The BR is unable to return to the bag before F3 tags her. R1 at third touches home well before the tag of the BR.

If I understand RS#1 in the ASA book, the tag of the BR missing first is considered an appeal, and the run would not score, correct?

If that's the case, why the inconsistency between similar plays?

Because on the play at 2nd, it's not obviously an appeal --- as there is another perfectly valid reason to be tagging the runner... she's off the base and liable to be put out. Nothing make it clear that the fielder is appealing the miss, but rather she's simply tagging a player.

At first, the runner is NOT in jeopardy of a normal tag for overrunning the base, so the tag of that player IS obviously an appeal of the miss.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

..At first, the runner is NOT in jeopardy of a normal tag for overrunning the base, so the tag of that player IS obviously an appeal of the miss.

I'm going to disagree that the tag of the runner that missed first is an obvious appeal.

In order to honor an appeal, I better get some indication from the defense that is is an appeal and what they are appealing.

There are other reasons that the defensive player could be making that tag, pehaps the defense feels that the runner made an attempt to second base.

On this play, somebody on defense better give me some indication that they saw the runner miss first base and that is why they are making a tag.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Because on the play at 2nd, it's not obviously an appeal --- as there is another perfectly valid reason to be tagging the runner... she's off the base and liable to be put out. Nothing make it clear that the fielder is appealing the miss, but rather she's simply tagging a player.

At first, the runner is NOT in jeopardy of a normal tag for overrunning the base, so the tag of that player IS obviously an appeal of the miss.

Playing devil's advocate.

Most, if not all, of the times that F3 would tag a BR (now R) that has overrun first base is to appeal an attempt to second. So, I don't think that appeal is obvious, at all; and if appealing the wrong thing, the appeal should be denied!!

How do you differentiate THAT appeal (where the run would score even if you honored it) from an appeal of a missed base (where the run would not score)? Don't you have to ask what F3 is appealing?