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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:05pm
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Use the Force?
Runners on the corners, 2 outs. The batter grounds to the SS, who gloves the ball and drops it. The runner from 1st beats the throw at 2nd, but she overslides the base (failing to touch the bag at all) and is tagged out. Before the runner from 1st was tagged, the runner from 3rd crossed home. Does the run count?
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Runners on the corners, 2 outs. The batter grounds to the SS, who gloves the ball and drops it. The runner from 1st beats the throw at 2nd, but she overslides the base (failing to touch the bag at all) and is tagged out. Before the runner from 1st was tagged, the runner from 3rd crossed home. Does the run count?
Passing the base is considered reaching it unless appealed and this does not read like an appeal.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:46pm
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Passing the base is considered reaching it unless appealed and this does not read like an appeal.

Cecil:

I agree with you ruling, but lets add a little something extra. After R1 is tagged out by F6, can the Defense just appeal R1 missing 2B thereby having an advantageous Fourth Out?

MTD, Sr.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 01:59pm
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Runners on the corners, 2 outs. The batter grounds to the SS, who gloves the ball and drops it. The runner from 1st beats the throw at 2nd, but she overslides the base (failing to touch the bag at all) and is tagged out. Before the runner from 1st was tagged, the runner from 3rd crossed home. Does the run count?
How did the ball get from second to first?

And it does not matter where the runner from third was since it was the third out it second.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 02:11pm
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Originally Posted by MrRabbit View Post
How did the ball get from second to first?

And it does not matter where the runner from third was since it was the third out it second.
I don't mean to be abrupt but this is pretty wrong and a little misleading. First the play was at second not 1st, he's talking about the runner going from first to second.
Now, the out was not a force out at second it was a tag out of a runner who had already acquired the forced base. Therefore, this is a timing play and it does in fact matter when the runner scored.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:02pm
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Originally Posted by MrRabbit View Post
How did the ball get from second to first?
HUH?

Quote:
And it does not matter where the runner from third was since it was the third out it second.
Oh dear. Read more first, then type.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:05pm
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I'm digging through file after file, looking for this. I KNOW I read, somewhere, sometime, that a runner oversliding into a base they are forced to who is tagged after they have gone past the base is to still be considered a force play.

My issue, however... did I read that in a ASA memo or monthly rule situation? USSSA? NFHS? Heaven forbid ... baseball??? Yuck.

Anyone have any idea what my puny brain is trying so hard to recall?
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:08pm
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
HUH?

Oh dear. Read more first, then type.
You both missed (she over slides the base (failing to touch the bag at all)

And since that happen the force is still in affect...

Therefore it is the third out of the inning.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:32pm
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Originally Posted by MrRabbit View Post
You both missed (she over slides the base (failing to touch the bag at all)

And since that happen the force is still in affect...

Therefore it is the third out of the inning.
With all due respect, sir... I didn't MISS it... I TYPED it. A general principle is that when a runner passes a base, she is deemed to have touched it until appealed. You seem to be not clear on this.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Cecil:

I agree with you ruling, but lets add a little something extra. After R1 is tagged out by F6, can the Defense just appeal R1 missing 2B thereby having an advantageous Fourth Out?

MTD, Sr.
In ASA...no.

The fourth out appeal is limited to runners that have scored.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 03:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I agree with you ruling, but lets add a little something extra. After R1 is tagged out by F6, can the Defense just appeal R1 missing 2B thereby having an advantageous Fourth Out?
If I'm not mistaken, in softball, unlike baseball, the advantageous fourth out may only be recorded on the scoring runner.

For example, let's say on this play, the runner going to second did tag second base, but then overslid the bag and was tagged for the third out. On the play, R1 from third passed home before the tag (time play), but she missed home plate. The defense may appeal the miss of home for the advantageous fourth out.

So I'm not sure you can have an advantageous fourth out here. What you may have (which is the crux of MD's question) is that the out at second is still a force out to negate the run. I'm not sure what the answer is on that one.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 05:04pm
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See my post above.....to the best of my knowledge, ASA is the only ruleset that limits the advantageous fourth out appeal to a runner that has scored.

In all other rulesets, as far as I know, the fourth out appeal in the play in the OP (force at second base) would be honored to negate the run. In ASA play, the umpires would not honor this appeal.

I freely admit that I am not familiar with all of the rulesets out there and it is entirely possible that one of the other alphabet soup organizations addresses the fourth out appeal differently.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 05:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Runners on the corners, 2 outs. The batter grounds to the SS, who gloves the ball and drops it. The runner from 1st beats the throw at 2nd, but she overslides the base (failing to touch the bag at all) and is tagged out. Before the runner from 1st was tagged, the runner from 3rd crossed home. Does the run count?
Speaking NCAA....
Count the run. (6.1.3.2)
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 06:58pm
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Originally Posted by KJUmp View Post
Speaking NCAA....
Count the run. (6.1.3.2)
Have not done NCAA in years and do not have an old book...

But I am not buying it that you can score a rule on the 3rd out when it is a force.
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Old Fri Oct 19, 2012, 07:15pm
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Originally Posted by MrRabbit View Post
But I am not buying it that you can score a rule on the 3rd out when it is a force.
They can't, if it is a force.
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