ASA Directive question

[youngump]

After posting a similar question a few years back Dakota pointed this out:

Strangely, in NFHS, after a period of inactivity with no attempt to retire the runner, the umpire is to declare the ball dead and rule the runner out. See case play 8.3.3 SITUATION B.

See: What iffy play

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Knowing Tony at that time, he probably ran the play just to spite one of the umpires who told him he would not rule in his favor.

I was going to save that honor for you Mike, as you would have probably told me that you would rule against it, just because it was me, not because it was a violation.

But this was 12-u. We practiced it a lot, but when we ran the play the first time, one of the runners (R2 or R3) was put out and R1 ended up not scoring, and quite possibly got doubled up.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

I was going to save that honor for you Mike, as you would have probably told me that you would rule against it, just because it was me, not because it was a violation.

But this was 12-u. We practiced it a lot, but when we ran the play the first time, one of the runners (R2 or R3) was put out and R1 ended up not scoring, and quite possibly got doubled up.

Yeah, there is how you draw it up, and there is how the players execute it...

[Tex]

Understand the discussion, but what rule is being used for the umpire to suspend play because both teams are at a stand still.

We have had other discussions where the umpire can not suspend play at a stand still situation, and must wait until someone does something, because the play is still ongoing.

What makes this play different?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tex

Understand the discussion, but what rule is being used for the umpire to suspend play because both teams are at a stand still.

We have had other discussions where the umpire can not suspend play at a stand still situation, and must wait until someone does something, because the play is still ongoing.

What makes this play different?

ASA does. (PS - I don't know about CAN NOT suspend play... I can't think of a situation where we CAN NOT... although I can think of several where a coach wants us to and I WOULD not.)

[tcannizzo]

The Mexican Standoff Rule, of course.

Point is that the official interpretation was handed down and therefore enforceable.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tex

Understand the discussion, but what rule is being used for the umpire to suspend play because both teams are at a stand still.

10.4.A

We have had other discussions where the umpire can not suspend play at a stand still situation, and must wait until someone does something, because the play is still ongoing.

What makes this play different?

Common sense. This is not a fair batted ball pending resolution; This is not the offense still attempting to advance; This is not the defense attempting a play.

[Softball910]

Young Ump, you are doing a good job keep reading the rule and case books.

To the all else if you are stuck on ASA please see 2012 Umpire manual, Rule 8, Section 3, read 3B then 3E, page 87.

Fellow umpires, we only enable less than knowledgeable coaches when WE allow them to attempt to circumvent the already written rules with some concoction they dream up in the shower(Chaos?, only in the coaches mind).

I am not sure where the rationalization of calling time and protecting the runner back to first base has come from beyond the fact that if a rule was not being violated, that calling time, by rule once again, allows no one to advance or be put out or play to happen in any sense beyond what the umpire is dictating. Did some Ump feel they were placing the runner in jeopardy?, So help her back to first - NOT!

I myself in very good conscience, would call time, call the runner from first out because they are not entitled to second base, and if CHAOS coach had a question about it I would explain 3B and 3E to them and move on.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Softball910

Young Ump, you are doing a good job keep reading the rule and case books.

To the all else if you are stuck on ASA please see 2012 Umpire manual, Rule 8, Section 3, read 3B then 3E, page 87.

What's your point? The rule you cited explicitly states that the defense must tag the runner to put them out, not a declaration by the umpire.

Fellow umpires, we only enable less than knowledgeable coaches when WE allow them to attempt to circumvent the already written rules with some concoction they dream up in the shower(Chaos?, only in the coaches mind).

I am not sure where the rationalization of calling time and protecting the runner back to first base has come from beyond the fact that if a rule was not being violated, that calling time, by rule once again, allows no one to advance or be put out or play to happen in any sense beyond what the umpire is dictating. Did some Ump feel they were placing the runner in jeopardy?, So help her back to first - NOT!

No, the defense had the opportunity to make a play on that runner and refused to do so. It takes two teams to play the game. What do you do in SP when a runner stands off a base and the defender stands there with the ball trying to stare them down? Do you just wait until one side decides to restart playing the game, or do you give them a few seconds to see if there is going to be a play, then kill the ball, put the runner back on the base and move on with the game?

I myself in very good conscience, would call time, call the runner from first out because they are not entitled to second base, and if CHAOS coach had a question about it I would explain 3B and 3E to them and move on.

You may have a clear conscience, but you will also restart the game from that point after losing the protest.

You have summarily decided the rules do not need to be followed, the interpretation by the NUS is wrong, and you are correct. Well, have fun with that.

[IRISHMAFIA]

2011 ASA Case Book

PLAY10.1-1
With R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B, B3 hits the ball to F6. R holds up as R2 advances to 2B. F6 throws out B3 at 1B and both runners remain on 2B. The defense does not notice and the ball is thrown to F1. No further play is apparent.

RULING: The umpire should call "time" and place R2 back on 1B (8-3E, 10-1)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Softball910

I myself in very good conscience, would call time, call the runner from first out because they are not entitled to second base, and if CHAOS coach had a question about it I would explain 3B and 3E to them and move on.

Then you would be calling this out in direct opposition to ASA's instruction on this play.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Then you would be calling this out in direct opposition to ASA's instruction on this play.

Yeah, but he's not "stuck on ASA"!

[Softball910]

YOu guys still don't want to read the rule book - WOW! If 3E does not get you on the right track there is no hope.

[RKBUmp]

WOW, and 3E also says the runner must be tagged to be put out. The ASA case play has been posted above.

[Softball910]

"the runner must be tagged to be put out" WOW! You guys still are not reading the rule book. Amazing!