Missing Player in Lineup

[Manny A]

Here's a scenario I faced during the spring high school season, and I'm offering it up for discussion. Let me know where I went wrong!

Home team head coach approached my partner and me as we were doing the equipment checks, and asked me if I could delay the start of the game as much as possible. His dilemma was that he had a starting player who was still playing a tennis match, and she wasn't at the park. I just left that one alone and kept doing my thing.

Well, when we did the plate conference, the coach handed me his lineup card, and he had the missing player listed in the #1 batting slot and playing F9. I didn't know that at the time until it became apparent later.

His card also had the DP listed in the #8 batting slot, and "F7" right next to the letters "DP". His Flex, appropriately listed in the #10 slot, had no position number listed next to her. So I asked him what position was his Flex player playing, and he mumbled something to the effect of, "I can play any of my ten starters in the nine defensive positions." I'm not sure what he meant by that, and I answered, "Well, if you're going to have a DP/Flex, I don't think you can start the game with your DP playing defense for the Flex because that removes the Flex from the lineup, and you really end up having nine starters, not ten." But since I wasn't 100% sure about that and whether it was okay to do so, I accepted his lineup as given to me.

But back to the missing player. When the announcer did the player introductions, he announced the leadoff batter playing F9, and nobody came out of the dugout. So NOW I'm really wondering what is going on, but I remained mum. After the intros and National Anthem, the home team took the field, and they had the DP playing F7, and the Flex in F9 (for the missing player)!

Well, I went over to the coach and asked him, "What's going on, John?" He answered that he had both his DP and Flex in the game on defense which he could do. The DP was playing defense for the player in the #1 batting slot (the missing player), and that player would be offense only. I asked him, "Is she here?" and when he didn't answer, I told him I was pretty sure he couldn't have a missing player in his lineup. He insisted she was on her way to the park from her tennis match. I really didn't want to argue with him and hold up the game because the girls were ready to play, so I started the game.

Needless to say, when the home team came up in the bottom of the first inning, the missing player was not available to bat, so the coach brought in a substitute player off his bench for her. I was beyond wanting to bring up anything more, and we just played. The opposing team never said anything (they probably weren't even aware of what was going on).

Comments? Thoughts?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Here's a scenario I faced during the spring high school season, and I'm offering it up for discussion. Let me know where I went wrong!

Home team head coach approached my partner and me as we were doing the equipment checks, and asked me if I could delay the start of the game as much as possible. His dilemma was that he had a starting player who was still playing a tennis match, and she wasn't at the park. I just left that one alone and kept doing my thing.

Coach, the scheduled start time is XX o'clock. I can't delay the game waiting for one of your players to arrive. If you have enough players, we are starting the game at that time. If not, invoke whatever rules your state has concerning non-started games.

Well, when we did the plate conference, the coach handed me his lineup card, and he had the missing player listed in the #1 batting slot and playing F9. I didn't know that at the time until it became apparent later.

His card also had the DP listed in the #8 batting slot, and "F7" right next to the letters "DP". His Flex, appropriately listed in the #10 slot, had no position number listed next to her. So I asked him what position was his Flex player playing, and he mumbled something to the effect of, "I can play any of my ten starters in the nine defensive positions." I'm not sure what he meant by that, and I answered, "Well, if you're going to have a DP/Flex, I don't think you can start the game with your DP playing defense for the Flex because that removes the Flex from the lineup, and you really end up having nine starters, not ten." But since I wasn't 100% sure about that and whether it was okay to do so, I accepted his lineup as given to me.

Since the FLEX is intended to be a defensive player, she needs to have a defensive position listed. What he was trying to do is have the DP play defense for the missing player. He is correct in saying that any nine can play defense, but all 10 players on the lineup need to have a defensive position listed including the DP listed as the DP.

But back to the missing player. When the announcer did the player introductions, he announced the leadoff batter playing F9, and nobody came out of the dugout. So NOW I'm really wondering what is going on, but I remained mum. After the intros and National Anthem, the home team took the field, and they had the DP playing F7, and the Flex in F9 (for the missing player)!

Well, I went over to the coach and asked him, "What's going on, John?" He answered that he had both his DP and Flex in the game on defense which he could do. The DP was playing defense for the player in the #1 batting slot (the missing player), and that player would be offense only. I asked him, "Is she here?" and when he didn't answer, I told him I was pretty sure he couldn't have a missing player in his lineup. He insisted she was on her way to the park from her tennis match. I really didn't want to argue with him and hold up the game because the girls were ready to play, so I started the game.

Needless to say, when the home team came up in the bottom of the first inning, the missing player was not available to bat, so the coach brought in a substitute player off his bench for her. I was beyond wanting to bring up anything more, and we just played. The opposing team never said anything (they probably weren't even aware of what was going on).

Comments? Thoughts?

Nothing illegal has happened. He plugged his DP in to play defense for the leadoff hitter and took a chance that his leadoff hitter would arrive prior to the bottom of the first inning when she was due to bat. When she didn't, he used an available sub.

If you would have taken a few more minutes at the plate conference to determine exactly what the coach was wanting to do with his DP, you would realize that everything was kosher. The FLEX player needed to have a defensive position listed. The DP was not playing defense for the FLEX, but for the missing leadoff hitter. Simply a defensive switch and perfectly legal. To add, yes the DP can start the game playing defense for the FLEX, it just needs to be reported once the lineups have been accepted and are official.

When dealing with the DP/FLEX, I always try to take a few extra minutes to determine exactly what the coach is trying to accomplish in order to make sure it is legal.

[MD Longhorn]

Only thing I'd add to the above is to KNOW, not "think" you know, the DP/Flex rules. I think that would have solved your confusion right at the beginning.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Only thing I'd add to the above is to KNOW, not "think" you know, the DP/Flex rules. I think that would have solved your confusion right at the beginning.

This isn't so much an issue regarding the DP/Flex rules as it is the handling of a player who is listed in the line-up but is not present. I couldn't find anything in the NFHS rule book or case book that states a player must be present at the game site to be listed.

I guess the coach was trying to circumvent the need to list the missing player as a substitute and have someone else listed as the starter. Putting the missing player into the line-up when she arrived after the game started would require a substitution that, I suppose, he didn't want to burn. I dunno.

[AtlUmpSteve]

While you haven't exactly said it, it appears that part of your concern is about listing a starting player that isn't present when the game starts. That isn't a stated rule in NFHS softball, although the necessary number to match the lineup (9 or 10) must be present; you can't list the DP/FLEX with only 9 present.

It sounds to me like the coach followed all applicable rules correctly.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

This isn't so much an issue regarding the DP/Flex rules as it is the handling of a player who is listed in the line-up but is not present. I couldn't find anything in the NFHS rule book or case book that states a player must be present at the game site to be listed.

I guess the coach was trying to circumvent the need to list the missing player as a substitute and have someone else listed as the starter. Putting the missing player into the line-up when she arrived after the game started would require a substitution that, I suppose, he didn't want to burn. I dunno.

Well you may need that too... but it was this I was referring to:

"Well, if you're going to have a DP/Flex, I don't think you can start the game with your DP playing defense for the Flex because that removes the Flex from the lineup, and you really end up having nine starters, not ten."

It's important not to use "I think" with a coach, but it's just as important to actually KNOW what he can and can't do with the DP/Flex.

[derwil]

Sounds like the coach did just about everything correct. At the plate meeting, I really only check the pitcher/catcher positions for courtesy runners (ASA/Fed). Coaches I've had will typically tell you when the DP is going in for someone, but not 100% of the time.

I really have no heartache with anything the coach did - and wouldn't think a thing about it if it happend on my next game. Not the smartest thing to not start someone else in hole #1, but that's a coach for ya. My biggest problem would be stopping the game when the player showed up to check her equipment.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Well you may need that too... but it was this I was referring to:

Quote:
"Well, if you're going to have a DP/Flex, I don't think you can start the game with your DP playing defense for the Flex because that removes the Flex from the lineup, and you really end up having nine starters, not ten."

It's important not to use "I think" with a coach, but it's just as important to actually KNOW what he can and can't do with the DP/Flex.

Well, it's been quite a while, and perhaps I didn't use those exact words when I spoke to the coach.

I must admit, however, that that was the first time I ever heard of a coach listing a DP/Flex on his/her line-up, but then having the DP start in the Flex's listed defensive position. It did catch me off-guard. And then the coach had the Flex and the DP both in on defense when the game started and the player listed in the #1 batting position was still missing.

This begs another question: Was this a case of an unreported substitution? Is there a requirement to report when a DP plays defense for someone other than the Flex?

[RKBUmp]

If the DP is playing defense for anyone other than the flex, no one has left the game and nothing to report. There has not been a substitution. The only time a coach would need to report the DP on defense would be if they were to be playing pitcher or catcher so they would be eligible for a courtesy runner.

Now, NCAA does require all defensive position changes to be reported. So, under NCAA rules the DP would need to be reported as playing any defensive position.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Well, it's been quite a while, and perhaps I didn't use those exact words when I spoke to the coach.

No offense intended, but we can only go by what you actually type. Don't roll your eyes at someone who believes that you mean what you type... how could I have guessed that you didn't?

I must admit, however, that that was the first time I ever heard of a coach listing a DP/Flex on his/her line-up, but then having the DP start in the Flex's listed defensive position. It did catch me off-guard. And then the coach had the Flex and the DP both in on defense when the game started and the player listed in the #1 batting position was still missing.

Maybe I made my point poorly because you seem to disagree with it while going about proving it. But this is what I'm talking about. I didn't mean to offend you by saying you need to learn this rule and be SURE of it - I bet more than half of the umpires out there are caught off guard by this rule at some point in the season ... and sometimes illegal things are allowed to happen because someone misses a small part of this rule. We ALL need to be SURE on this rule - because it has a lot of possibilities and flexibility - and coaches are creative.

This begs another question: Was this a case of an unreported substitution? Is there a requirement to report when a DP plays defense for someone other than the Flex?

Again, my point exactly. Of course not. Again, without offering offense, you should know this. DP playing defense for LF is exactly the same as LF playing defense for RF.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Manny A

...This begs another question: Was this a case of an unreported substitution? Is there a requirement to report when a DP plays defense for someone other than the Flex?

Is there a requirement to report when the shortstop goes to play left field and the left fielder goes to play shortstop? The DP playing defense for anyone other than the FLEX is the same thing. Simply a defensive position change. No player has entered or left the game and the batting order is not changed.

I usually ask the coaches at the plate meeting to let me know if they make a defensive change involving their pitcher or catcher so I can keep track if they want to use a courtesy runner. It is not required that they do so, however.

[Manny A]

I'm obviously showing my failure to fully grasp the DP/Flex rule when it comes to certain subtleties.

The reason I ask if it was considered an unreported substitution of sorts is because most coaches will tell me when they're bringing in the DP to play defense for someone other than the Flex. I know that the rules don't include the entry of the DP on defense for someone other than the Flex as a substitution. But I wasn't sure if it still had to be reported (similar to when a courtesy runner enters the game).

Live and learn...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I'm obviously showing my failure to fully grasp the DP/Flex rule when it comes to certain subtleties.

The reason I ask if it was considered an unreported substitution of sorts is because most coaches will tell me when they're bringing in the DP to play defense for someone other than the Flex. I know that the rules don't include the entry of the DP on defense for someone other than the Flex as a substitution. But I wasn't sure if it still had to be reported (similar to when a courtesy runner enters the game).

Live and learn...

It is not similar to the CR because the CR rule specifically requires reporting, while the DP/FLEX rule does not.

I am still confused whether the DP was reported as playing for the FLEX before the game.
If so, different status for the FLEX, who then re-entered to play defense in the 1st along with the DP.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

.......need to learn this rule and be SURE of it - I bet more than half of the umpires out there are caught off guard by this rule at some point in the season ... and sometimes illegal things are allowed to happen because someone misses a small part of this rule. We ALL need to be SURE on this rule - because it has a lot of possibilities and flexibility - and coaches are creative.

mb makes an excellent point here.

We all pretty much umpire for multiple sanctioning bodies during the course of a week, month, season; and I'm sure on some occasions the same day.

I can't say (without going to my books) if every part of the DP/Flex rule is exactly the same for every code that I work. And even after going to the books, I'll be the first to admit that I have trouble keeping them all straight in my head...especially when you add to the mix (depending on the code) the use of EP's, AP's, and CR's.

To that end, keeping in mind that misapplication of the rule could lead to a protest, I keep a small DP/Flex "cheat sheet" for the code I'm working in my line-up card holder. I also make it a point to review it prior to taking the field.

If a coach comes to me with a DP/Flex change or question that for whatever reason makes me go "Huh??", or the coach is trying to be, as mb said "creative" with the DP/Flex; and is adamant that his 'creativity' is allowed by rule, I just consult my sheet.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Manny A

...This begs another question:...

Actually, no, it doesn't. Begging the Question, Again