ASA Directive question

[MD Longhorn]

Does anyone know where the ASA directive came from on the following play:

Runners on 1st and 2nd. R2 steals second, as R1 remains on second. Ball thrown back to pitcher who gets the ball in the circle and chooses to make no play.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Does anyone know where the ASA directive came from on the following play:

Runners on 1st and 2nd. R2 steals second, as R1 remains on second. Ball thrown back to pitcher who gets the ball in the circle and chooses to make no play.

What is the directive? I hope it is that R2 is out.

And, would this really happen?

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

What is the directive? I hope it is that R2 is out.

And, would this really happen?

I had a coach suggest it to me as a possible play once. So, yes it could.

I'll be interested in the ASA directive.

Rita

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

What is the directive? I hope it is that R2 is out.

And, would this really happen?

Why would R2 be out? She's in contact with the base while the ball is in the circle and there is no rule forbidding two runners to be in contact with the same base simultaneously.

Actually, trying to correct the situation by returning to 1st base while the ball is in the circle would be a LBR violation.

It is not a directive, it is a rule. It has been covered in the UIC clinic and I believe at some point it was included on a Rules Clarification from KR.

When this occurs and it is apparent no one is going to move, the umpire is to suspend play and return the runner to 1st base.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

When this occurs and it is apparent no one is going to move, the umpire is to suspend play and return the runner to 1st base.

That is too simple, we need something more complex with degrees of ITUJ thrown in to cause coaches ejections.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Why would R2 be out?.

Because she's not on the base she's entitled to occupy since R1 wasn't forced to vacate the base.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

She's in contact with the base while the ball is in the circle and there is no rule forbidding two runners to be in contact with the same base simultaneously.

I know this is one of your favorite rules in the rule book, but maybe there should be an amendment to the rule.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Actually, trying to correct the situation by returning to 1st base while the ball is in the circle would be a LBR violation.

I think that calling the runner out for the LBR violation would be a great teaching moment. You're not going to see this at older levels and making it a teachable moment at younger levels would be beneficial in the long run.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It is not a directive, it is a rule. It has been covered in the UIC clinic and I believe at some point it was included on a Rules Clarification from KR.

When this occurs and it is apparent no one is going to move, the umpire is to suspend play and return the runner to 1st base.

So, ASA's fallback for everyone that doesn't understand how to run the bases or get an out when we have two runners occupy a base is to have a do over?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Because she's not on the base she's entitled to occupy since R1 wasn't forced to vacate the base.

Um ... but that's not illegal.

I think that calling the runner out for the LBR violation would be a great teaching moment. You're not going to see this at older levels and making it a teachable moment at younger levels would be beneficial in the long run.

Except that she's not breaking any part of the LBR.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It is not a directive, it is a rule. It has been covered in the UIC clinic and I believe at some point it was included on a Rules Clarification from KR.

When this occurs and it is apparent no one is going to move, the umpire is to suspend play and return the runner to 1st base.

Thanks, Mike - I'm looking for that rules clarification. I and another umpire cannot locate it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Thanks, Mike - I'm looking for that rules clarification. I and another umpire cannot locate it.

I took a quick look at a few of them, I couldn't find it. Then again, I know I've had this discussion in OKC and I thought on one of these boards in the past couple years.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I took a quick look at a few of them, I couldn't find it. Then again, I know I've had this discussion in OKC and I thought on one of these boards in the past couple years.

I believe there was a case book play that covered this. (but that may have been before the case book was trimmed down)

[ronald]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Thanks, Mike - I'm looking for that rules clarification. I and another umpire cannot locate it.

I know it is in the case book i have from library2002 but it is not handy.

[Tex]

Understand the discussion, but what rule is being used for the umpire to suspend play because both teams are at a stand still.

We have had other discussions where the umpire can not suspend play at a stand still situation, and must wait until someone does something, because the play is still ongoing.

What makes this play different?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

What is the directive? I hope it is that R2 is out.

And, would this really happen?

No, R2 is not out... what for?

Regarding really happening, the ruling applies to any situation (for whatever reason) that ends with 2 runners on the same base, and a pitcher with the ball in the circle making no play.

[youngump]

After posting a similar question a few years back Dakota pointed this out:

Strangely, in NFHS, after a period of inactivity with no attempt to retire the runner, the umpire is to declare the ball dead and rule the runner out. See case play 8.3.3 SITUATION B.

See: What iffy play

[IRISHMAFIA]

2011 ASA Case Book

PLAY10.1-1
With R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B, B3 hits the ball to F6. R holds up as R2 advances to 2B. F6 throws out B3 at 1B and both runners remain on 2B. The defense does not notice and the ball is thrown to F1. No further play is apparent.

RULING: The umpire should call "time" and place R2 back on 1B (8-3E, 10-1)