Rules Interpretation

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You sound like we're talking about having discussions on various rules... if that's what you thought I meant, I apologize. What I'm saying is adding a simple, "If you want to discuss a play, ask for time, wait for us to call time, and then approach the umpire that made the call. If that umpire feels we need to get together, we'll do so." That's not opening any doors or initiating any what-ifs. It's clear and concise, and A) makes us more approachable and less antagonistic and B) hopefully heads off the coach walking onto the field during live play and/or going to PU to ask for help on BU's call or vice versa. It also doesn't invite further conversation - we say that and move right into whatever's next.

...followed with "let's have a great game with good sportsmanship. Shake hands, good luck. Home team, please take the field."

It's a "my door is always open" statement, nothing more. Keeps our demeanor positive out there, as we have enough conflict waiting for us as it is.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You sound like we're talking about having discussions on various rules... if that's what you thought I meant, I apologize. What I'm saying is adding a simple, "If you want to discuss a play, ask for time, wait for us to call time, and then approach the umpire that made the call. If that umpire feels we need to get together, we'll do so." That's not opening any doors or initiating any what-ifs. It's clear and concise, and A) makes us more approachable and less antagonistic and B) hopefully heads off the coach walking onto the field during live play and/or going to PU to ask for help on BU's call or vice versa. It also doesn't invite further conversation - we say that and move right into whatever's next.

I was talking about drawing a line as to how far some umpires may go. Not stating that this is the case here. Besides, a coach is going to come out and discuss issues with umpires anyway, it is their job. Wouldn't you think instructing someone and offering them permission of how to do their job could be taken as a bit demeaning. If I'm the coach and you gave me that little talk, probable reaction would be "no ****".

OTOH, I've seen umpires tell coaches and players they didn't want to talk to anyone but the HC and that is just as much a load of crap. The only time I would consider limiting discussion to the HC is if there were multiple issue or individuals questioning a play and that decision would made at that time, not beforehand.

Look, I just don't believe there is any value to extraneous instruction and many umpires don't stop at just reminding the coach how to approach an umpire.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I was talking about drawing a line as to how far some umpires may go. Not stating that this is the case here. Besides, a coach is going to come out and discuss issues with umpires anyway, it is their job. Wouldn't you think instructing someone and offering them permission of how to do their job could be taken as a bit demeaning. If I'm the coach and you gave me that little talk, probable reaction would be "no ****".

OTOH, I've seen umpires tell coaches and players they didn't want to talk to anyone but the HC and that is just as much a load of crap. The only time I would consider limiting discussion to the HC is if there were multiple issue or individuals questioning a play and that decision would made at that time, not beforehand.

Look, I just don't believe there is any value to extraneous instruction and many umpires don't stop at just reminding the coach how to approach an umpire.

A lot of this is going to be situational. If we're talking D1 NCAA, I can't imagine ever needing to remind a coach of this.

If we're talking an instructional league with parents volunteering as coaches, then yes, I would say it's needed. Badly needed.

[MD Longhorn]

I agree there's a line there that shouldn't be crossed. We've all seen them. From the PU who starts his plate conference with, "Listen, we're not here to take any crap from any of you - if I have to, you're gone!", to the guy I was working with last spring who spent LITERALLY 10 minutes explaining the difference between a judgement call and a "rule call". We've all also worked with that guy who doesn't need lineups from anyone and his entire PC, if he has one, is "OK ... anyone have any questions? Nope, ok, play ball".

The ASA guide is a fantastic guide. If I'm working midseason in league ball, it is almost exactly what I say. If I'm working HS ball, it is almost exactly what I say as well even though it's not the code we're working (with the obligatory ... "I'm covering my backside by asking you if everyone is properly equipped" added on)

But the beginning of a tourney where more than half the teams are teams that have never been here before - we all find it beneficial if we ALL start their first games with that little bit. Yeah, probably half of the coaches are saying just what you said... "No ****". The other half, however, are those who have used local completely untrained umpires (if any) with crazy local rules, and board member coaches that walk on water and are accustomed to being treated like the king when they walk on the field, even in the middle of a play. Many also think PU can automatically overrule BU if they happened to disagree with the judgement of their partner. I see no problem in heading that off - one time - at the beginning of a very long weekend.

Ditto the first weekend of league ball (which just got rained out. )

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Ditto the first weekend of league ball (which just got rained out. )

Isn't this the same Texas that was offering BJ's for any rain just a little while ago? And now you're unhappy you finally got a little? (yep, double entendre intended).

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by umpire12

much agreed..the plate conference is not the place to give the coach any lessons in proper protocol or open invitations to disrupt the game with inane questions. if he has a legitimate inquirery thats fine but its much prefered to keep the coaches in the dugout where they belong

I agree 100%. I've sent more umpires home from national tournaments because they couldn't control coaches and manage the game properly than for any other reason. Umpire all games consistently. If you're going to say something at the plate conference in the first game of a tournament or season, you better say it on the last game. How do you know which coach is going to be present? How do I know what my partners have said in previous games.

Keep the coaches in the dugout. That is where they belong unless they are making a change, taking a conference or coaching a base. Why open the door and invite them out of the dugout? Why is there a need to say anything? That doesn't mean you can't talk to them when the time is right if it is appropriate. BUT DON'T PLANT THE SEED!

Umpires have a job to do. Game management is a huge part of that job and it is what separates average umpires from great umpires. Keeping the coaches in the dugout and keeping them quiet goes a long way to making sure the game runs smoothly.

The problem is when these milk toast umpires want to appease everyone by trying to be their friend. They sell their fellow umpires out. Now I have to deal with a coach saying, "Well the last umpire said I could come out." That is as obnoxious as "Well the last umpire let us play with [fill in the blank: jewelry, no chin straps, etc.]. Now I have to deal with a coach who thinks I'm abrasive because I just want to continue the game but the last umpire invited him to have a nice chat.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Keep the coaches in the dugout. That is where they belong unless they are making a change, taking a conference or coaching a base. Why open the door and invite them out of the dugout? Why is there a need to say anything? That doesn't mean you can't talk to them when the time is right if it is appropriate. BUT DON'T PLANT THE SEED!

Umpires have a job to do. Game management is a huge part of that job and it is what separates average umpires from great umpires. Keeping the coaches in the dugout and keeping them quiet goes a long way to making sure the game runs smoothly.

The problem is when these milk toast umpires want to appease everyone by trying to be their friend. They sell their fellow umpires out. Now I have to deal with a coach saying, "Well the last umpire said I could come out." That is as obnoxious as "Well the last umpire let us play with [fill in the blank: jewelry, no chin straps, etc.]. Now I have to deal with a coach who thinks I'm abrasive because I just want to continue the game but the last umpire invited him to have a nice chat.

THIS!!!!! This is the reason why I don't say anything about "if you have a question...come out and talk." It's not part of my pregame, and never will be.

By the way, the meeting went very well....I talked about how the lineup works, pitching rules, the lookback rule..... they were most concerned with those things plus interference/obstruction. I also gave them an email address to send rules questions to if there were any that came up after the meeting that they were unsure of.

Last clarification - though I was just named UIC for USSSA, I do still work PONY and ASA and sit on the board of my local ASA association. If anyone knows how I can change my username to more closely reflect that I wear several hats, please let me know.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

Last clarification - though I was just named UIC for USSSA, I do still work PONY and ASA and sit on the board of my local ASA association. If anyone knows how I can change my username to more closely reflect that I wear several hats, please let me know.

How about LIBlue/Red/Etc