Temporary fence HR or Ground rule double?

[Coach Keith]

Had a girl hit a temporary fence in the air today and the ball traveled up the fence and over (the fence gave way some and allowed the ball to travel up the fence.) The fence did not fall over nor did the ball go through the fence.

Is it a home run or a ground rule double?

Here are the ASA rules for a home run and ground rule double

H. When a fair batted fly ball strikes the foul pole above the fence level or leaves the playing field in fair territory without touching the ground or going through the fence. It shall entitle the batter-runner to a home run, unless it passes out of the grounds at a distance less than the prescribed fence distances from home plate, in which case the batter-runner would be entitled to only two bases.
110
RULE 8 - BATTER-RUNNER AND RUNNER
I. When a fair ball bounces over or rolls under or through a fence or any designated boundary of the playing field. Also, when it deflects off of a defensive player and goes out of play in foul territory, deflects off a run- ner or umpire and goes out of play after having passed an infielder ex- cluding the pitcher and provided no other infielder had a chance to make an out.
EFFECT: The ball is dead, and all runners are awarded two bases from
the time of the pitch.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by Coach Keith

Had a girl hit a temporary fence in the air today and the ball traveled up the fence and over (the fence gave way some and allowed the ball to travel up the fence.) The fence did not fall over nor did the ball go through the fence.

Is it a home run or a ground rule double?

Here are the ASA rules for a home run and ground rule double

H. When a fair batted fly ball strikes the foul pole above the fence level or leaves the playing field in fair territory without touching the ground or going through the fence. It shall entitle the batter-runner to a home run, unless it passes out of the grounds at a distance less than the prescribed fence distances from home plate, in which case the batter-runner would be entitled to only two bases.
110
RULE 8 - BATTER-RUNNER AND RUNNER
I. When a fair ball bounces over or rolls under or through a fence or any designated boundary of the playing field. Also, when it deflects off of a defensive player and goes out of play in foul territory, deflects off a run- ner or umpire and goes out of play after having passed an infielder ex- cluding the pitcher and provided no other infielder had a chance to make an out.
EFFECT: The ball is dead, and all runners are awarded two bases from
the time of the pitch.

Please see the bold portion below......

ASA RS
26. HOME RUNS / FOUR BASE AWARDS / GROUND RUlE DOUBlES.
When a ball does not hit the ground and leaves the playing field in fair territory, it is a home run. In Slow Pitch, any fair fly ball touched by a defensive player on either side of the fence that clears or has cleared the fence in fair territory, should be declared a four-base award and shall not be included in the total of over-the-fence home runs.

A. A batted ball hitting a foul pole above the fence is a home run.

B. A batted ball hitting the top of the fence and bouncing over in fair territory is a home run.

C. A batted ball going over the fence in fair territory at a distance shorter
than the recommended minimum distance is a two base award.

D. A batted ball hitting a defensive player in fair territory, but going over
the fence in foul territory is a two base award.

E. A batted ball that leaves the park in fair territory and first touches the
ground in foul territory is a home run.

The ball did not hit the top of the fence and bounce over.....it hit the middle of the fence.

Two base award.

Joel

[Coach Keith]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

Please see the bold portion below......


B. A batted ball hitting the top of the fence and bouncing over in fair territory is a home run.


The ball did not hit the top of the fence and bounce over.....it hit the middle of the fence.

Two base award.

Joel

Thanks for the reply but I want to make sure I understand the logic you used to get your conclusion.

Because the temporary fence in use here was a soft netting, it is really impossible for the ball to hit on top of the fence and bounce over like a traditional fence. Therefore, if I am interpreting your comments correctly, any ball that touches this type of fence in the air and goes over is a ground rule double. Even if it just clips the fence?

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by Coach Keith

Thanks for the reply but I want to make sure I understand the logic you used to get your conclusion.

Because the temporary fence in use here was a soft netting, it is really impossible for the ball to hit on top of the fence and bounce over like a traditional fence. Therefore, if I am interpreting your comments correctly, any ball that touches this type of fence in the air and goes over is a ground rule double. Even if it just clips the fence?

If it clips the fence, that would be hitting the top......correct?

The interpretation is my own as there is no guidance other than the rules you cited and the Rule Supplement I showed.

Using that information is how I came to my conclusion.

For example......if you had a metal chain link fence that was leaning out severely and the ball hit the center of it and went over......that would not fit the definition of hitting the top of the fence. Same logic applies to a temporary fence.

Joel

[Coach Keith]

I agree it is up to interpretation. I can see how clipping the fence could be considered hitting the top of he fence but that starts to call into question how far down the fence is considered the top of the fence? With the call in question the ball hit the top 1/3 of the fence.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Top of the fence is just that the "top". The area facing the sky, not that part facing the field.

The front of the fence/wall facing the field is considered to be part of live ball territory which is why an OF can stand on top of a collapsed fence and still catch a fly ball for an out.

IMO, the ball landed in fair territory and then left the field of play. GRD.

[Coach Keith]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Top of the fence is just that the "top". The area facing the sky, not that part facing the field.

The front of the fence/wall facing the field is considered to be part of live ball territory which is why an OF can stand on top of a collapsed fence and still catch a fly ball for an out.

IMO, the ball landed in fair territory and then left the field of play. GRD.

That makes sense to me and is consistent with other post I have seen related to temporary fences. Thanks!

[DBull]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

[I]ASA RS
26. HOME RUNS / FOUR BASE AWARDS / GROUND RUlE DOUBlES.
When a ball does not hit the ground and leaves the playing field in fair territory, it is a home run.

What about this?

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by DBull

What about this?

As Mike noted, the front of the fence is considered part of the playing field. The only exception the Rule Supplement give is for the ball hitting the top of the fence. The front is not the top.

Joel

[DBull]

"The front is not the top."

Neither is it the ground.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DBull

"The front is not the top."

Neither is it the ground.

Okay, you're right.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, you're right.

And left.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by DBull

What about this?

A ball that goes through the fence also didn't touch the ground, and it's to be ruled a two base award.

I'd have a two base award.

[MD Longhorn]

Hey, if we're going to use only single lines in the rulebook and ignore the rest of it, the following are home runs too...

26. HOME RUNS / FOUR BASE AWARDS / GROUND RUlE DOUBlES.
When a ball does not hit the ground and leaves the playing field in fair territory, it is a home run.

1) Outfielder catches the ball and throws it to a fan. (The ball did not hit the ground and left the playing field in fair territory.)
2) Fly ball ricochets off the concrete base of the flag at Minute Maid park and bounces over the fence.
3) Ball caught in stand in foul ground. Fan throws it back fair and over the outfield fence. (The ball did not hit the ground, and while it did initially leave the playing field in foul territory, it then reentered and left the playing field in fair territory).
4) Ball lands squarely on a discarded empty box of popcorn in left field and bounces over the fence.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Hey, if we're going to use only single lines in the rulebook and ignore the rest of it, the following are home runs too...


1) Outfielder catches the ball and throws it to a fan. (The ball did not hit the ground and left the playing field in fair territory.)
2) Fly ball ricochets off the concrete base of the flag at Minute Maid park and bounces over the fence.
3) Ball caught in stand in foul ground. Fan throws it back fair and over the outfield fence. (The ball did not hit the ground, and while it did initially leave the playing field in foul territory, it then reentered and left the playing field in fair territory).
4) Ball lands squarely on a discarded empty box of popcorn in left field and bounces over the fence.

I like the way you think.......

Lance Berkman tells a story of him throwing a baseball from in the corner of LF at the old Rice BB Field that went into an empty potato chip bag that was swirling around in the wind.

Needless to say, the batter wound up with an inside the park homerun, and coach Graham was not very happy with Lance (like it was his fault).

Joel