Temporary Fence

[Andy]

Play from this weekend:

18u FP game, ASA rules, no runners on base, outs don't matter, temporary fences set up at 200'. I am PU working with a 2nd year partner.

Batter hits a long fly to left-center field, ball bounces in the field of play, F7, chasing the ball and never touching it, runs into a section of the temp fence, knocking it down past the fence line , F7 falls as well, the ball now rolls up onto the section of the fence that is lying on the ground. F7 gets up, retrieves the ball, and throws it back into the infield, B/R stops at third with a triple.

Question - were we correct in leaving the ball "live" once it rolled up onto the fence? I know that in ASA, a player can stand on a fallen fence and legally catch the ball for an out. If the ball had rolled off of the fence out into dead ball territory, I would have killed it and awarded two bases. Partner and I agreed on the ruling, but neither one of us is really sure.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

Play from this weekend:

18u FP game, ASA rules, no runners on base, outs don't matter, temporary fences set up at 200'. I am PU working with a 2nd year partner.

Batter hits a long fly to left-center field, ball bounces in the field of play, F7, chasing the ball and never touching it, runs into a section of the temp fence, knocking it down past the fence line , F7 falls as well, the ball now rolls up onto the section of the fence that is lying on the ground. F7 gets up, retrieves the ball, and throws it back into the infield, B/R stops at third with a triple.

Question - were we correct in leaving the ball "live" once it rolled up onto the fence? I know that in ASA, a player can stand on a fallen fence and legally catch the ball for an out. If the ball had rolled off of the fence out into dead ball territory, I would have killed it and awarded two bases. Partner and I agreed on the ruling, but neither one of us is really sure.

Explained to me years ago by Henry Pollard:

The entire fence is inside the field of play; from the base to the top. When a fence is standing, a ball that hits it and stays on the field remains live, a player that hits it, climbs it, is still in live ball territory; until something touches the dead ball ground beyond the fence.

That same rationale applies when the fence is knocked down; the entire fence is in the field of play, from base to top. Ball sitting on it, fielder standing (or sprawled on it), all in live ball territory; until something touches the dead ball ground beyond the fence.

This only changes if the BASE of the fence is dislodged so that it is also moved into the dead ball territory. Then the entire fence is in dead ball territory.

[BretMan]

The first part of your post is the same as I've always understood: A fence lying on ground effectively extends live-ball area and a fielder standing on that collapsed fence is regarded as being in a live-ball area. And, in fact, this comes straight from the ASA Rules Supplement.

The second part, about the base of the fence moving, is a new one on me. With just about any temporary fencing I can imagine, I think that the base will be moved if the fence is knocked over. I've never seen this interpretation in print, nor seen it brought up in the many discussions on "collapsed fences" over the years.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BretMan

The second part, about the base of the fence moving, is a new one on me. With just about any temporary fencing I can imagine, I think that the base will be moved if the fence is knocked over. I've never seen this interpretation in print, nor seen it brought up in the many discussions on "collapsed fences" over the years.

Had a temp fence set up as a series of fences - probably 12 feet wide each... fielder hit one, landed on it, and slid a good 10 feet (like a sled) while on the fence - THAT fence was most definitely entirely in DBT.

I don't think he's referring to a fence that's partially dislodged but still connected to the rest of the fence.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Andy

Play from this weekend:

18u FP game, ASA rules, no runners on base, outs don't matter, temporary fences set up at 200'. I am PU working with a 2nd year partner.

Batter hits a long fly to left-center field, ball bounces in the field of play, F7, chasing the ball and never touching it, runs into a section of the temp fence, knocking it down past the fence line , F7 falls as well, the ball now rolls up onto the section of the fence that is lying on the ground. F7 gets up, retrieves the ball, and throws it back into the infield, B/R stops at third with a triple.

Question - were we correct in leaving the ball "live" once it rolled up onto the fence? I know that in ASA, a player can stand on a fallen fence and legally catch the ball for an out. If the ball had rolled off of the fence out into dead ball territory, I would have killed it and awarded two bases. Partner and I agreed on the ruling, but neither one of us is really sure.

You got it right...

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Explained to me years ago by Henry Pollard:

The entire fence is inside the field of play; from the base to the top. When a fence is standing, a ball that hits it and stays on the field remains live, a player that hits it, climbs it, is still in live ball territory; until something touches the dead ball ground beyond the fence.

That same rationale applies when the fence is knocked down; the entire fence is in the field of play, from base to top. Ball sitting on it, fielder standing (or sprawled on it), all in live ball territory; until something touches the dead ball ground beyond the fence.

This only changes if the BASE of the fence is dislodged so that it is also moved into the dead ball territory. Then the entire fence is in dead ball territory.

Classic Henry Pollard.
I only had the opportunity to work for him once, (quite a few years ago), but it was his ability to make the complicated simple to understand and apply correctly in a game that has stayed with me over the years.
IMO, just a great teacher and UIC.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Classic Henry Pollard.
I only had the opportunity to work for him once, (quite a few years ago), but it was his ability to make the complicated simple to understand and apply correctly in a game that has stayed with me over the years.
IMO, just a great teacher and UIC.

Its that damn grin and southern drawl that makes him so affable.