Ground Rule Double

brunclikk · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 01:01pm

This happened yesterday and i can honestly say i have no idea what the call should have been.

Bases Loaded two outs, batter hits a ball deep to left field, ball bounces near the fence, the left fielder juggles it and appears to hit the ball over the fence on his 2nd or third touch, the umpires gave the runner third as he was already going to second and they treated it like an overthrow and all runs scored. I spoke to the base umpire after the game and he said he felt the fielder intentionally swatted the ball over the fence in an attempt to get a ground rule double call but when i spoke to the fielder after the game he said the ball was over the fence and he tried grabbing it to keep it in but he couldn't get a handle on it and it fell over the fence. What should the ruling have been if he did intentionally hit it over? what should it be if he tried to bring it back in but failed?

LDUB · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 01:16pm

OBR 7.05
Each runner including the batter runner may, without liability to be put out, advance (f) Two bases, if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or third base foul lines; or if it goes through or under a field fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines; (g) Two bases when, with no spectators on the playing field, a thrown ball goes into the stands, or into a bench (whether or not the ball rebounds into the field), or over or under or through a field fence, or on a slanting part of the screen above the backstop, or remains in the meshes of a wire screen protecting spectators. The ball is dead. When such wild throw is the first play by an infielder, the umpire, in awarding such bases, shall be governed by the position of the runners at the time the ball was pitched; in all other cases the umpire shall be governed by the position of the runners at the time the wild throw was made

Quote:

Originally posted by brunclikk
What should the ruling have been if he did intentionally hit it over?

This would be covered by part G of the rule above. The award would be two bases from the time of the throw. So if the BR had already touched first base, then he would be awarded third base.

Quote:

Originally posted by brunclikk
what should it be if he tried to bring it back in but failed?

This is covered by part F. If he tried to field it but deflected it out of the field, then the award would be two bases from the time of the pitch. So the BR would get second base.

brunclikk · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 01:34pm

rule F states that its a GRD if its deflected over the fence OUTSIDE the 1st or 3rd base line, does that apply even if it's INSIDE the lines because this ball went over the left field wall in fair territory

WindyCityBlue · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 01:50pm

Does anyone remeber the ball that hit a pro outfielder in the head (on the fly) and it went over the fence for a home run?

I cannot remember the player's name, but the highlight is shown on sports bloopers all of the time and still makes me laugh.

Also, a few years ago, a minor league ball player ran through the outfield fence after making a catch. Does anyone remember that play either? there are several very similar, but this one involved the kid CLEARLY making the catch a few feet from the warning track and his momentum took him right into the plywood outfield fence.

Kaliix · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 02:49pm

The major leaguer who had the ball bounce off his head and over the fence was Jose Canseco.

So what would be the ruling in this case?

WindyCityBlue · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 02:56pm

You're putting me on, right?

Does anyone remeber the ball that hit a pro outfielder in the head (on the fly) and it went over the fence FOR A HOME RUN?

It's just like he deflected it over the fence with his mitt.

brunclikk · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 03:10pm

back to my original question, if he didn't intentionally hit it over the fence, should it be a ground rule, if so, does this open up the idea for outfielders when they know a hitter is going to get a triple to "accidentally" deflect the ball over the fence?

LDUB · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 03:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by brunclikk
back to my original question, if he didn't intentionally hit it over the fence, should it be a ground rule

Yes.

Quote:

Originally posted by brunclikk
does this open up the idea for outfielders when they know a hitter is going to get a triple to "accidentally" deflect the ball over the fence?

It is pretty hard to deflect a ball over a fence. The ball has to bounce just right for it to go over. If you try to deflect the ball over the fence, it will be pretty obvious to everyone that it was intentional.

brunclikk · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 03:22pm

thanks, cleared up a lot for me, it pretty much came down to just that, if he hit it over the fence intentionally or not, i was on first when the ball was hit so i was running and didn't see the whole thing, but both the umpires said it looked intentional despite the fielder saying otherwise, so they made the right call in giving the runner third based on their belief it was intentional

WindyCityBlue · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 03:49pm

"Ground Rule Double"

This term is defined as something covered by the ground rules that awards a predetermined amount of bases. Usually at your pregame meeting with the coaches, you will cover these. Most of the time, the coaches will say, "If the ball goes out of play...book rule." Make sure yur pregame covers fencing and obstructions. Otherwise, a ball that hits the ground in fair territory and then bounds over or under the outfield fence (or lodges in the ivy) is a ground rule double.