Ground Rule Double

backerma · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 04, 2002, 01:31am

This should be an easy one but it has caused some confusion at our game the other night. On a ground rule double how many bases is given to a runner that is on first at the time? The umpire ruled that because the runner was between second and third when the ball went out of play then by his judgement the runner should score or be allowed three bases. Is this an area open for umpire judgement or should all runners be allowed only two bases?

Thanks.

Steve M · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 04, 2002, 03:53am

Erma,
Everybody gets two bases from the base occupied at the time of the pitch. There is no additional judgement involved with this.

Steve M

IRISHMAFIA · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 04, 2002, 06:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by backerma
This should be an easy one but it has caused some confusion at our game the other night. On a ground rule double how many bases is given to a runner that is on first at the time? The umpire ruled that because the runner was between second and third when the ball went out of play then by his judgement the runner should score or be allowed three bases. Is this an area open for umpire judgement or should all runners be allowed only two bases?

Thanks.

What if the BR became a runner before the ball entered DBT? Would that umpire then award that player 3B?

If so, then it is no longer a ground-rule double, is it? Like Steve said, no judgment, just two bases from the time of the pitch.

backerma · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 04, 2002, 08:38am

Thanks for the answer. That's what I thought the ruling was also but unfortunately we lost that arguement three different times during a double-header the other day. I guess I'll be letting the league director know so some one can update this umpire on the ruling.

Larry · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 05, 2002, 01:45pm

Quote:

Originally posted by backerma
This should be an easy one but it has caused some confusion at our game the other night. On a ground rule double how many bases is given to a runner that is on first at the time? The umpire ruled that because the runner was between second and third when the ball went out of play then by his judgement the runner should score or be allowed three bases. Is this an area open for umpire judgement or should all runners be allowed only two bases?

Thanks.

Your question is not one of confusion, but, I believe the number of bases awarded is based on where the runner is at. The awarding of two bases is only awarded to the batter. The remaining runner would be awarded bases based on is there force.

Larry · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 05, 2002, 01:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve M
Erma,
Everybody gets two bases from the base occupied at the time of the pitch. There is no additional judgement involved with this.

Steve M

Steve, thanks, I was sure on that.

Dakota · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 05, 2002, 01:51pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Larry

Quote:

The awarding of two bases is only awarded to the batter. The remaining runner would be awarded bases based on is there force.

Not true. For a ground rule double "...all runners are awarded two bases from the time of the pitch." (ASA 8-6-I-EFFECT)

MHepner · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 29, 2002, 11:10pm

Regarding the ground rule double. If there is a runner on first base and a batter hits a towering fly ball. The runner on first scores and the batter is halfway around third when the ball hits the ground and bounces over the fence. By definition, is the runner on first sent back to third and the batter to second? Or does the runner score and the batter at least on third. Is the batter in this situation penalized by the rule. I believe most often, you are only going to get two bases from where you are because the batter and runner(s) will not make the next base before the ball goes over the wall. I read somewhere that in this case it would be in the umpire's judgement, thus nullifying the ground rule double rule.

Steve M · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 29, 2002, 11:17pm

MHepner
welcome aboard. The board is kinda slow his time of year.

Anyway, in your play and every other play with a "ground rule double", batter-runner and every runner get two bases from their occupied base at the time of the pitch. It does not matter where any runner happens to be when the ball leaves the field - two bases from the time of the pitch.

Steve M

DownTownTonyBrown · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 30, 2002, 10:58am

Hepner, it's hard to believe the situation posed - the batter-runner can move around the bases nearly 200 feet yet the defense cannot move a similar distance to get under this towering fly ball....? NO matter - ruling is the same.

If a hit ball goes out-of-play, the defense has been denied opportunity to make a play. The offense is rewarded with a 2-base advancement for all runners.

If the defense was afforded opportunity to field the ball and booted it into dead ball territory (hit ball touched the defense and then bounded into DBT - like the Canseco bounce off of his head over the homerun fence), this is a different story. Two bases are awarded from the time the ball went out of play (I don't have my books to confirm, but I'm pretty sure this is correct).

Oh, and nice play Canseco!

SamNVa · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 30, 2002, 11:22am

If the defense does not control the ball before it goes out of play, it is either a GRD or a HR depending on what the ball did before going out of play. For example,

the ball hits off the fielder's glove (or their head) in fair territory and goes over the outfield fence in fair territory - HR
the ball hits off the fielder's glove in fair territory and goes over the outfield fence in foul territory - GRD
the ball hits off the fielder's glove in fair territory and hits the ground or some other object (like the front of the fence) then goes into DBT - GRD

SamC

greymule · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 30, 2002, 12:23pm

Sam, on your number 3: In ASA, a ball that hits the outfielder's glove, bounces off the fence, hits the outfielder again, and then goes over the fence (fair) is a home run (or four-base award). In baseball it's a double.

IRISHMAFIA · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 30, 2002, 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
Sam, on your number 3: In ASA, a ball that hits the outfielder's glove, bounces off the fence, hits the outfielder again, and then goes over the fence (fair) is a home run (or four-base award). In baseball it's a double.

Good note. Many people to not realize this was added to the rule book last year.

whiskers_ump · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 30, 2002, 04:58pm

Damn all you guys off work, or answering from work?

Shame on you. I work construction and don't have lap
computer.

No use jumping in on this, not with the names of the previous
repliers. I did like what DTTB said on the OBS post. Not all of it,
but some of what was said I tend to agree with. Noticably so if a
pickoff is occurring. I am leaning Del-blue, I am.

{hard headed glen}
glen

Elaine "Lady Blue" · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 30, 2002, 05:43pm

As I've said before, Glen has way too much fun with his cartoon characters! But, the hard headed Glen is by far one of the best.
The comment about 4 base award is right on the money, not HR but 4 base award.