CWS FL-AZ plate umpire

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by Bandit

The play into third is not the secondary play for the plate umpire. It is the primary play/call that is the responsibility of the plate umpire. The pulled foot is a secondary play/call for the plate umpire. The call at first and a pulled foot is a "if" call for the plate umpire. "IF" they appeal, they will ask for his/her opinion/help.

True the plate umpire should trail the BR. But only to the point (normally the plate umpire will not even get to the running lane) in which that the R1 has approached (if passing...this would be considered possibly too late) second base on her way to third. At this point the plate umpire must adbandon the BR and be in position for the call at third.

This is the mechanic for both ASA and NCAA.

Bandit... Time to go to another clinic.

BTW. If the clinic is in SoCal that HP umpire most likely will be one of the instructors.

I will be working for Chris next weekend at a Gold Qualifier. I will tell her you don't agree with the mechanic. Maybe you and she can get together and change it.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Bandit

The play into third is not the secondary play for the plate umpire. It is the primary play/call that is the responsibility of the plate umpire. The pulled foot is a secondary play/call for the plate umpire. The call at first and a pulled foot is a "if" call for the plate umpire. "IF" they appeal, they will ask for his/her opinion/help.

True the plate umpire should trail the BR. But only to the point (normally the plate umpire will not even get to the running lane) in which that the R1 has approached (if passing...this would be considered possibly too late) second base on her way to third. At this point the plate umpire must adbandon the BR and be in position for the call at third.

This is the mechanic for both ASA and NCAA.

Let's not confuse chronology with responsibilities. I think Wade helped with different words.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

NCAA Mechanics require the plate umpire to hold on the 1st base line extended to watch for a pulled foot before releasing to 3B for the play. You do not cheat and watch for a pulled foot while you are running toward 3B.

The first play (at 1B) is the first responsibility, then release to 3B. If a runner is going from 1 to 3, and is very fast, it is possible that the plate umpire might not make it all the way to 3B when the play happens.

Well, I have a hard time with that one.

R1 is going to reach 2nd with possible movement toward 3B before a pulled foot may occur. I would think the priority it the possible play two bases closer to home..

[DNTXUM P]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, I have a hard time with that one.

R1 is going to reach 2nd with possible movement toward 3B before a pulled foot may occur. I would think the priority it the possible play two bases closer to home..

NCAA manual as noted by Wade earlier

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

NCAA manual as noted by Wade earlier

I wasn't questioning the accuracy of the post, just don't care for it as a mechanic.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Seems you read that incorrectly. If the play at third is the secondary play, meaning a play has happened somewhere else, then the PU will make the call at third. If the initial play is on R1, PU will not be making this call in any umpire system.

In a 3 umpire system with a runner starting on first and the initial attempt for a out is on R1 as she approaches third, whose call if not the plate umpires?

PU has the responsibility to watch for this on plays at first base, and where it is seen from depends on where runners start. But in this instance, with R1 (at first), PU will trail a BR.

Agreed. Only until R1 is commited to third. Then the plate umpire must move towards 3rd.

Normally? Try like the PU should never trail more than 15 feet.

Agreed. Comment on distance was given only as a reference, not an exact distance.

The PU will NEVER give up the play at first if that is where the play is happening, in a two umpire system of three umpire system. Even if the single runner started at second. You see the play first, then you move to third.

If the runner starts at second the plate should not be trailing BR, true?

If that's what you believe, please cite page number of the must recent ASA or NCAA manuals.

ASA National Staff

[DNTXUM P]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I wasn't questioning the accuracy of the post, just don't care for it as a mechanic.

I understand. Sometimes I feel the same as I am busting my a** to third and see the play starting to unfold as I am half way there.

[flipper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I wasn't questioning the accuracy of the post, just don't care for it as a mechanic.

I agree. When given the choice between 2 sets of eyes for a probable force play at 1st or 1 set for a tag play at 3rd, you need to do the best you can on the first play without compromising a good look on the second. I believe you trail less and cheat towards 3rd. You can run to the "X" as prescribed by the manual, but, if your game happens to be televised, you may be the subject of a thread like this.

[flipper]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Bandit... Time to go to another clinic.

BTW. If the clinic is in SoCal that HP umpire most likely will be one of the instructors.

I will be working for Chris next weekend at a Gold Qualifier. I will tell her you don't agree with the mechanic. Maybe you and she can get together and change it.

Maybe they can get together and discuss HBP, timing, and the strike zone as well. There IS some video they can reference for instructional purposes.

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by flipper

Maybe they can get together and discuss HBP, timing, and the strike zone as well. There IS some video they can reference for instructional purposes.

HBP: Don't tell me you've never made this exact same call or a call like it (like a hit ball off the foot as a live fair ball). I have.

Timing: If you are talking about her strike call. Call down, come up, then signal. I didn't see anything wrong with it. Are you a baseball guy???

strike zone. 1 finger point at another has three pointing back at you. Basically, The pitcher must adjust and that is her only strong pitch then shame on her coach(es) for allow that to happen. Some umps call it some don't.

BTW have you done any TV games? If so which one(s). I am sure we would all be glad to give you a critique.

[flipper]

Originally Posted by vcblue

HBP: Don't tell me you've never made this exact same call or a call like it (like a hit ball off the foot as a live fair ball). I have.

Once I tell a coach that it did hit the knob and "I EVEN heard it", I have doubled down on my call. I can't see me then going to my partners for them to tell me that I didn't see/hear what I saw/heard. If she thought she had enough information to make that call, fine, stick with it. If not, give the batter the benefit of the doubt. Also, I'm not waiting that long to make that call either.

Originally Posted by vcblue

Timing: If you are talking about her strike call. Call down, come up, then signal. I didn't see anything wrong with it. Are you a baseball guy???

Actually I was referring to the 3-2 pitch where she made no signal, only to call the batter out once she reached 1st. But, since you brought it up, I do think less of a delay between her verbal and signal would be better. Her timing has been a topic of discussion on more than just this board.

Originally Posted by vcblue

strike zone. 1 finger point at another has three pointing back at you. Basically, The pitcher must adjust and that is her only strong pitch then shame on her coach(es) for allow that to happen. Some umps call it some don't.

So, you're saying that the players must adjust to an inaccurate zone? Wow, I guess the game really is about us. That, IMO, is a lame defense for an umpire.

Originally Posted by vcblue

BTW have you done any TV games? If so which one(s). I am sure we would all be glad to give you a critique.

Yes I have. And you may well be able to pick my game apart. But I'm not touted as the "best of the best".

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Bandit

ASA National Staff

Congrats on announcing (boldly!) who wrote the book. Kudos.

Now try opening it. As promised, I did. It's right there in black and white - your assertions are dead wrong.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Congrats on announcing (boldly!) who wrote the book. Kudos.

Now try opening it. As promised, I did. It's right there in black and white - your assertions are dead wrong.

Page?

[topper]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

The PU will NEVER give up the play at first if that is where the play is happening, in a two umpire system of three umpire system. Even if the single runner started at second. You see the play first, then you move to third.

If that's what you believe, please cite page number of the must recent ASA or NCAA manuals.

You'll have to let me know if it's changed, but the '09 CCA Softball manual pg. 181 says:

"...come to the foul line in fair territory and trail the batter-runner about 10 feet up the line. Be stopped in a ready set to see the play at first base. If R1 rounds second base, move to a primary position for a tag play at third base by first establishing your angle and then closing down the distance."

Doesn't seem to definitively support Bandit or Big Slick.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by topper

You'll have to let me know if it's changed, but the '09 CCA Softball manual pg. 181 says:

"...come to the foul line in fair territory and trail the batter-runner about 10 feet up the line. Be stopped in a ready set to see the play at first base. If R1 rounds second base, move to a primary position for a tag play at third base by first establishing your angle and then closing down the distance."

Doesn't seem to definitively support Bandit or Big Slick.

Isn't that what I said? It is on page 183 of the 2011 manual. I was in agreement with Wade (starting writing before he made his post) countering Bandit.