CWS FL-AZ plate umpire

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Bandit

The play into third is not the secondary play for the plate umpire. It is the primary play/call that is the responsibility of the plate umpire.

Seems you read that incorrectly. If the play at third is the secondary play, meaning a play has happened somewhere else, then the PU will make the call at third. If the initial play is on R1, PU will not be making this call in any umpire system.

The pulled foot is a secondary play/call for the plate umpire. The call at first and a pulled foot is a "if" call for the plate umpire. "IF" they appeal, they will ask for his/her opinion/help.

PU has the responsibility to watch for this on plays at first base, and where it is seen from depends on where runners start. But in this instance, with R1 (at first), PU will trail a BR.

True the plate umpire should trail the BR. But only to the point (normally the plate umpire will not even get to the running lane)

Normally? Try like the PU should never trail more than 15 feet.

in which that the R1 has approached (if passing...this would be considered possibly too late) second base on her way to third. At this point the plate umpire must adbandon the BR and be in position for the call at third.

The PU will NEVER give up the play at first if that is where the play is happening, in a two umpire system of three umpire system. Even if the single runner started at second. You see the play first, then you move to third.

This is the mechanic for both ASA and NCAA.

If that's what you believe, please cite page number of the must recent ASA or NCAA manuals.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Seems you read that incorrectly. If the play at third is the secondary play, meaning a play has happened somewhere else, then the PU will make the call at third. If the initial play is on R1, PU will not be making this call in any umpire system.

In a 3 umpire system with a runner starting on first and the initial attempt for a out is on R1 as she approaches third, whose call if not the plate umpires?

PU has the responsibility to watch for this on plays at first base, and where it is seen from depends on where runners start. But in this instance, with R1 (at first), PU will trail a BR.

Agreed. Only until R1 is commited to third. Then the plate umpire must move towards 3rd.

Normally? Try like the PU should never trail more than 15 feet.

Agreed. Comment on distance was given only as a reference, not an exact distance.

The PU will NEVER give up the play at first if that is where the play is happening, in a two umpire system of three umpire system. Even if the single runner started at second. You see the play first, then you move to third.

If the runner starts at second the plate should not be trailing BR, true?

If that's what you believe, please cite page number of the must recent ASA or NCAA manuals.

ASA National Staff

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Bandit

ASA National Staff

Congrats on announcing (boldly!) who wrote the book. Kudos.

Now try opening it. As promised, I did. It's right there in black and white - your assertions are dead wrong.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Congrats on announcing (boldly!) who wrote the book. Kudos.

Now try opening it. As promised, I did. It's right there in black and white - your assertions are dead wrong.

Page?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Page?

Again ... book in the car. However, you've been told by EVERYBODY that you are wrong... why don't you crack open the book for the first time and find even the slimmest shred of evidence supporting your contention, and tell US what page it's on. Good luck. You won't.

You're the guy in the elevator facing the back. When told that you're supposed to face front, you say, "Nope, this is the right way." The entire elevator tells you you're wrong. You say, "Prove it". They all point to a sign on the front of the elevator ... behind you. You say, "Can't see that, I'm facing the back."

[Bandit]

"From ASA FP camp 2009 by julie johnson

runner on 1st. trail and move to poistion at third when runner hits second."

Isn't this what I said?

[topper]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

The PU will NEVER give up the play at first if that is where the play is happening, in a two umpire system of three umpire system. Even if the single runner started at second. You see the play first, then you move to third.

If that's what you believe, please cite page number of the must recent ASA or NCAA manuals.

You'll have to let me know if it's changed, but the '09 CCA Softball manual pg. 181 says:

"...come to the foul line in fair territory and trail the batter-runner about 10 feet up the line. Be stopped in a ready set to see the play at first base. If R1 rounds second base, move to a primary position for a tag play at third base by first establishing your angle and then closing down the distance."

Doesn't seem to definitively support Bandit or Big Slick.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by topper

You'll have to let me know if it's changed, but the '09 CCA Softball manual pg. 181 says:

"...come to the foul line in fair territory and trail the batter-runner about 10 feet up the line. Be stopped in a ready set to see the play at first base. If R1 rounds second base, move to a primary position for a tag play at third base by first establishing your angle and then closing down the distance."

Doesn't seem to definitively support Bandit or Big Slick.

Isn't that what I said? It is on page 183 of the 2011 manual. I was in agreement with Wade (starting writing before he made his post) countering Bandit.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Isn't that what I said? It is on page 182 of the 2011 manual. I was in agreement with Wade (starting writing before he made his post) countering Bandit.

Slick....fixed the page number for you.
P.183 is the coverage for Single to OF w/Runner on 1st. P.182 is the coverage for the OP...Hit to INF w/Runner on 1st.

[ronald]

From ASA FP camp 2009 by julie johnson

runner on 2nd base and ball hit on infield with play going to first base. hp umps primary is 3rd base. move directly up the line and head moves on a swivel. we went over this before.

runner on 1st. trail and move to poistion at third when runner hits second.

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by ronald

From ASA FP camp 2009 by julie johnson

runner on 2nd base and ball hit on infield with play going to first base. hp umps primary is 3rd base. move directly up the line and head moves on a swivel. we went over this before.

runner on 1st. trail and move to poistion at third when runner hits second.

From ASA FP camp 2009 by julie johnson.

Then where should the 3b umpire go?

Did we go over this before?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by luvthegame

From ASA FP camp 2009 by julie johnson.

Then where should the 3b umpire go?

Did we go over this before?

I don't know, I saw two scenarios cited in your response. Once there is a runner starts on 2B, U3 goes nowhere, unless out on a fly ball down LF line, the PU goes no where unless to make a fair/foul, catch/no catch on the RF line.