NW vs. Bama and Plate Umpire!

[Al]

Did you see the 6th inning of the Bama NW game? First the PU gives a girl 1st base on a ball that hit the knob of the bat. Then, he gives a girl a base hit on a ball that hit her out of the box. On top of that he gives a girl a walk on a pitch on the corner and at the knees. It resulted in two runs and a 5 to 4 lead. Well the bottom of the 7th inning is coming up so as Yogi says..."it's not over till it's over"... I don't have a favorite (except for TN.) but I hope the wildcats come through with a win because the umpire blew it big time. ...Nothin' like fun at the ole' ball park! ...Al

[Justme]

NW beat Alabama 6-5 in 10.

These were D1 umpires? Man, that PU looked really bad on several situations.

What about that 3B umpire? What was she watching? She should have seen the second "kicked" call. And what about that foul call she made, the one the PU called fair...at the same time?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Al

Did you see the 6th inning of the Bama NW game? First the PU gives a girl 1st base on a ball that hit the knob of the bat.

An assumption we can make after seeing the pitch five times in slow motion instead of the .25 seconds Scott Thomas had to make the call.

Then, he gives a girl a base hit on a ball that hit her out of the box.

No, he did not give the BR first base. He simply ruled it a batted ball. The fact that it hit the batter should have been picked up by the 3B umpire. It wasn't.

On top of that he gives a girl a walk on a pitch on the corner and at the knees.

The pitch was called a ball "at the knees" because the knees are NOT in the strike zone.



Now, the pitch that hit the 'Bama batter on the knee with no effort on her behalf to avoid it should have been seen.

[Al]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

An assumption we can make after seeing the pitch five times in slow motion instead of the .25 seconds Scott Thomas had to make the call.



No, he did not give the BR first base. He simply ruled it a batted ball. The fact that it hit the batter should have been picked up by the 3B umpire. It wasn't.



The pitch was called a ball "at the knees" because the knees are NOT in the strike zone.



Now, the pitch that hit the 'Bama batter on the knee with no effort on her behalf to avoid it should have been seen.

Hi Mike,

Forget the slow motion. The call where he awarded the girl 1st base was very poor. Sure it happened fast, but the second it happened it was pretty obvious the ball hit the bat and not her hand. In cases similar, with the sound the ball made, and no pain displayed by the batter I have never seen the umpire award a base.

The one where the ball was kicked after the girl was out of the box should have been seen by the PU, IMO. It was a batted ball, but it also was a kicked ball and he was right there in front of it. The umpire on 3rd was not asked for help and didn't offer any. She also made a poor call on a ball that was touched in fair ground by calling it a foul ball.

The pitch at the knees that he called a ball was at the top of the front knee. It was in the zone at the corner of the plate as well. Of course it's a judgement call and he made the same call against Alabama that would have ended the game, but there were a couple of times that he called pitches that appeared to be in the exact same locations strikes.

Yes, I saw that award go to a girl that didn't try to move away, in fact she moved slightly towards the ball as if to make sure that the ball would hit her. Of all the games I watched; that game had more than it's share of booted calls. I am not one who could have at this point in my experience, but I'm sure you and others on this forum would have done a better job. The teams deserve better, especially the pitchers. ....Al

[MNBlue]

I understand the concerns, but I also know what it like behind the plate, and I wouldn't second guess someone selected to work the WCWS and what they saw/called in contrast to what I saw from a distorted camera angle.

JMO

[JEL]

Well I didn't get the call to work those games, and I'm sure not gonna be too critical of those who did. Overall they do a fine job.

I may though not have agreed with some of the plate calls, but I got to see the replays.

All I will say is on the second HB in question, where the ball rolled off the batters leg out of the box, I beliieve when the ball contacted the knob of the bat, or the batter (which ever you would have called), the PU came up with a Dead Ball Signal (and possibly call) BEFORE the ball hit the runner. If that were the case the ball off the leg would be a mute point. Dead ball, batter awarded first.

I watched for that on the replays, and was convinced that was the "chain of events". I just called what I saw though, I could be wrong!

[qcumpire]

The thing that looked bad in the batter/runner being hit by the batted ball, was the PU started to kill the play. Replays show his hands going up in the air, so either he was anticpating a call (and we all know that is bad) or he had some doubt that the ball may have struck the batter/runner.

Even my 8-year-old daughter knows that when the umpire's hands go in the air above his/her head it is the signal for deadball.

I agree, the third base umpire kicked the call as well, she should have been killing the play immediately.

That's where the Northwestern Coach should have been talking to the umpire crew...instead of the later in the game when she kept her runners on base after the double play on the flyout to left field.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Al

Hi Mike,

Forget the slow motion. The call where he awarded the girl 1st base was very poor. Sure it happened fast, but the second it happened it was pretty obvious the ball hit the bat and not her hand. In cases similar, with the sound the ball made, and no pain displayed by the batter I have never seen the umpire award a base.

It wasn't obvious, even after a few replays! And how do you know what sound it made, were you on the field?

The one where the ball was kicked after the girl was out of the box should have been seen by the PU, IMO. It was a batted ball, but it also was a kicked ball and he was right there in front of it. The umpire on 3rd was not asked for help and didn't offer any.

In this case, she shouldn't wait to be asked if she saw it. For that matter, it might have been just as clear to the umpire at 2B. Either could have made that call without waiting for the PU if they saw it.

The pitch at the knees that he called a ball was at the top of the front knee. It was in the zone at the corner of the plate as well. Of course it's a judgement call and he made the same call against Alabama that would have ended the game, but there were a couple of times that he called pitches that appeared to be in the exact same locations strikes.

I disagree. The catcher was pulling the pitch up and attempting to frame the pitch with the mitt inverted. The pitch, for this particular batter, looked like a ball to me.

[Steve M]

"Quote:
Then, he gives a girl a base hit on a ball that hit her out of the box.


No, he did not give the BR first base. He simply ruled it a batted ball. The fact that it hit the batter should have been picked up by the 3B umpire. It wasn't."

Granted, I was watching this game through semi closed eyelids - but I would have sworn I saw his hands come up and it looked like he ruled this a HBP. The runner surely did not run hard to 1B - more like a trot. I would think if it had been judged a batted ball, Northwestern's coach would have been all over him - I'd have sworn she stayed in the dugout this time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I couldn't tell if he was killing the ball or just moving his arms while removing the mask to avoid hitting the catcher. I think it may just have been a reaction and the umpire was looking for the players to tell him what happened by their actions. I don't think the players cooperated very well

[tcannizzo]

The 3B umpire in the NW/AL game was the same Lisa Harvey behind the plate in the UCLA/TN game.

How does the 3B ump EVER signal FOUL BALL on a ball bounding over 3B? That is a rookie mistake in making the call, and doubly worse that it was the wrong call, triple worse that it contradicted the PU. She was lost out there, but she has being given "the opportunity" based on way more than her skill.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

The 3B umpire in the NW/AL game was the same Lisa Harvey behind the plate in the UCLA/TN game.

How does the 3B ump EVER signal FOUL BALL on a ball bounding over 3B? That is a rookie mistake in making the call, and doubly worse that it was the wrong call, triple worse that it contradicted the PU. She was lost out there, but she has being given "the opportunity" based on way more than her skill.

That's not correct, Tony. The U3 in NW vs AL was Sally Walker, U1 was Diane Beasley, and PU was Scott Thomas; their other game was AZ vs OSU. Lisa's crew (Jeff Sloan and John Kurnat) worked UCLA vs TN, and ASU vs TX.

Lisa Harvey is an exceptional umpire, who very much earned her way; as has Sally Walker. This is not either's first time to the NCAA WCWS.

But, I can't say I know what Sally was doing on that play.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

But, I can't say I know what Sally was doing on that play.

If I was any kind of guy, I would say, "Give the girl a break".

Thanks for the right names.

[benbret]

I have always been told that if an umpire calls the ball foul then it is foul no matter where it goes. It was clear that the third base umpire called this ball foul. How can they keep playing? Is there a case book play that covers this situation. What if the plate umpire had called it foul and the third base umpire called it fair. Would we just play on? It clearly would put one team at a disadvatage.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by benbret

I have always been told that if an umpire calls the ball foul then it is foul no matter where it goes. It was clear that the third base umpire called this ball foul. How can they keep playing? Is there a case book play that covers this situation. What if the plate umpire had called it foul and the third base umpire called it fair. Would we just play on? It clearly would put one team at a disadvatage.

I doubt there was a "verbal" call of foul and the PU probably already indicated fair.

The worst case scenario would be to place the BR on 1B and advance any runner forced.