Left early on a caught fly

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Yes ... but if the coach DID say something along those lines, it gives me the opportunity to say, "Coach, you can't appeal that play, it has to come from a player."

It also gives you the opportunity to tell this UIC that, besides not understanding what a force out is and not knowing the correct base award for a ball thrown out of play, he doesn't understand the proper appeal process, either.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BretMan

It also gives you the opportunity to tell this UIC that, besides not understanding what a force out is and not knowing the correct base award for a ball thrown out of play, he doesn't understand the proper appeal process, either.

That conversation has already been had. He didn't believe me on that either, until this got discussed in the umpire room. He does now.

There's an interesting (using the term loosely) discussion on this same play on the baseball board. There seems to be disagreement (including by me) regarding whether a catch is "a play" with regard to awarding of bases. A large contingent says it is not, and that the "first play by an infielder" was the overthrow, so the award should have been TOP, not TOT. Thoughts?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

That conversation has already been had. He didn't believe me on that either, until this got discussed in the umpire room. He does now.

There's an interesting (using the term loosely) discussion on this same play on the baseball board. There seems to be disagreement (including by me) regarding whether a catch is "a play" with regard to awarding of bases. A large contingent says it is not, and that the "first play by an infielder" was the overthrow, so the award should have been TOP, not TOT. Thoughts?

There's too much vitriol on the baseball board. I don't call baseball but my understanding of the rule growing up was that the catch was not an initial play and so intuitively just read it that way (the opposite of your reading). And finally, their rule book doesn't seem clear at all.
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The Legend Condominium Pattaya

[MD Longhorn]

Was really wondering about thoughts HERE ... in softball, under softball rules.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Was really wondering about thoughts HERE ... in softball, under softball rules.

When would it matter, but without checking my book I'd guess in softball a catch is a play all codes.
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Marijuana Card

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

When would it matter, but without checking my book I'd guess in softball a catch is a play all codes.

Interestingly, this is NOT a play in baseball... not that that matters here.

When would it matter? The revised play in this thread for one. Catch is made after the runner has advanced a base, then the ball is thrown out of play. if the catch is a play, the throw is NOT the first throw of an infielder, and the base award is TOT, not TOP. If the catch is not a play, the throw is the first play by an infielder, and the award is TOP, not TOT.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Interestingly, this is NOT a play in baseball... not that that matters here.

When would it matter? The revised play in this thread for one. Catch is made after the runner has advanced a base, then the ball is thrown out of play. if the catch is a play, the throw is NOT the first throw of an infielder, and the base award is TOT, not TOP. If the catch is not a play, the throw is the first play by an infielder, and the award is TOP, not TOT.

But softball doesn't have that rule.
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BBWhot

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Interestingly, this is NOT a play in baseball... not that that matters here.

When would it matter? The revised play in this thread for one. Catch is made after the runner has advanced a base, then the ball is thrown out of play. if the catch is a play, the throw is NOT the first throw of an infielder, and the base award is TOT, not TOP. If the catch is not a play, the throw is the first play by an infielder, and the award is TOP, not TOT.

Yeah, not in softball. That is why it is totally academic as to baseball.

In softball, in absolutely every case, two bases from the time of throw. Period. First or subsequent, infielder or outfielder. Two bases, time of throw.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Was really wondering about thoughts HERE ... in softball, under softball rules.

Rule 2 SECTION 47 “PLAY BALL,” MAKE A PLAY, INITIAL PLAY
ART. 2 . . . Make a Play.
b. Any action by a fielder who is attempting to catch or gain control of a batted or thrown ball.
c. An attempt by a defensive player to retire a runner or a batter-runner.
ART. 3 . . .Initial Play. A fielder is considered to be making an initial play on a fair batted ball when she:
b. Has a reasonable chance to catch the ball in flight or catch the ball in flight after it touches another fielder.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

That conversation has already been had. He didn't believe me on that either, until this got discussed in the umpire room. He does now.

There's an interesting (using the term loosely) discussion on this same play on the baseball board. There seems to be disagreement (including by me) regarding whether a catch is "a play" with regard to awarding of bases. A large contingent says it is not, and that the "first play by an infielder" was the overthrow, so the award should have been TOP, not TOT. Thoughts?

This, of course, is an immaterial side conversation, since it has no bearing on any softball ruling, since we don't care if first or subsequent play, or if by an infielder or an outfielder, when awarding bases.

Strictly for the academic discussion, does baseball not have an equivalent definition of a "play", being an attempt by the defense to put out an offensive player?? If so, how can the catch (which DID put out the batter-runner) NOT be a play?