Live ball appeal

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MigoP

NFHS. Rule 2.1,Art. 9. "If a runner misses home plate and the catcher misses the tag, the umpire should hesitate slightly. If no tag is made, the umpire should declare the runner safe. If an appeal play is then made by tagging either the runner or home plate, the umpire should then make a decision on this appeal play."
In OBR rules, you make no calls. This is an appeal play. If the runner is heading towards his dugout area, the catcher is not required to chase him for the tag. We grant the appeal if the catcher steps on the plate and asks for appeal.

Welcome to the SOFTBALL forum. Let me put this as gently as possible; no one here cares even one momentary point of interest about OBR rules. Feel free to discuss ANY version of SOFTBALL rules, please spare us references to other sports, like football, basketball, volleyball, swimming, diving, or baseball.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by txump81

7.10(d) the runner fails to touch home base and makes no attempt to return to that base, and home base is tagged; NOTE: A runner forfeits his/her opportunity to return to home base when he/she enters the dugout or any other dead ball area on their way to the bench or dugout.

The way I read the OP, the runner should be safe as they were attempting to return and therefore must be tagged.

And what if there are other runners on base? F2 is out chasing down a runner who missed a base. Why prevent the defense from getting other outs? I can't see how you wouldn't honor the appeal here.

[MigoP]

Steve, I believe if you read my post again you will see I cited NFHS Softball Rules. Unless something changed dramatically, this is High School softball Rule. In Fed. runner out on appeal,simple as that.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MigoP

Steve, I believe if you read my post again you will see I cited NFHS Softball Rules. Unless something changed dramatically, this is High School softball Rule. In Fed. runner out on appeal,simple as that.

Yes, but you followed up with OBR which has no bearing on softball (except maybe LL and even there there are modifications).

We can appreciate your knowledge, but mixing not only rule sets, but games (and baseball and softball are NOT the same game) can easily confuse the issue and thread.

[MigoP]

Sorry you boys only do 1 league but most umpires do several. Distinguishing the differences helps clarify not confuse umps. Staying with 1 book limits you,by your choice. Others call lots of different leagues. Clarifacation will only help you understand differences.

[BretMan]

Do you consider baseball and softball different leagues?

Try "different sports"!

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by MigoP

Sorry you boys only do 1 league but most umpires do several. Distinguishing the differences helps clarify not confuse umps. Staying with 1 book limits you,by your choice. Others call lots of different leagues. Clarifacation will only help you understand differences.

Distinguishing differences between ASA/NFHS/NCAA, etc. may clarify things for softball umpires who work multiple softball rulesets. Applying OBR to softball plays does confuse things.

Or, you could try talking about softball rulings in the baseball forum and see how nice they treat you there...

[MigoP]

Seth, we do talk about all rule books in both sports because a lot of people do both sports. Our association and state gives us handouts telling the different rules between OBR NFHS NCAA ASA. This is for the majority of people who do more than 1 league.
They appreciate knowing the differences, seeing how they have to make different calls for different leagues.
The only one's I can see this confusing is umpires who only do softball.
The majority of umps work all year in multiple leagues and are not limited to softball. We prefer to be versed in any league we call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MigoP

The only one's I can see this confusing is umpires who only do softball.

I don't agree. I routinely find softball and baseball umpires who innocently confuse the rules and, unfortunately impose the wrong rule in the wrong game. I don't know how many times I've heard a baseball umpire working a softball game tell me, "that's how we do it in baseball".

Once talking with Mary S. from NFHS and she referred to my state's Fed interpreter as the "cute little man who always asks why we just can't use baseball rules for softball". Sad part is that this baseball guys idea of a softball rules clinic was to read that year's rules changes from the documents provided by NFHS. He "ran" an association that trained the softball umpires in baseball rules and mechanics. Offered to help his association by opening the ASA state umpire school to his umpires. He refused to pass this on to his group. No idea why.

The majority of umps work all year in multiple leagues and are not limited to softball. We prefer to be versed in any league we call.

Absolutely, positively agree. But I don't agree with mingling. I often have prospects tell me that they are going to do everything, baseball, softball, FP, SP, high school, league, travel ball tournaments, etc. My only response is to advise them to concentrate on a single discipline/game until confident and then expand their skills.

[txtrooper]

I call ASA/USFA FP all year long, here in Houston, with very little breaks in between. I like to specialize in FP Softball and choose not to call any other sport. I agree with IRISH that Umpires confuse baseball and softball rules when they do both. I have worked with a couple baseball/softball Umpires and have seen them confuse baseball rules with softball rules and mechanics on the field.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Once talking with Mary S. from NFHS and she referred to my state's Fed interpreter as the "cute little man who always asks why we just can't use baseball rules for softball".

CUTE ????

[MigoP]

I agree umpires who do both sometimes mix rule books. If these umpires were more informed of the differences in the 2 they will eventually get better at distinguishing the differences. Many,many times its the coaches who mix rules up and an uninformed umpire has no knowledge to explain to these coaches where they are going wrong. This doesn't help the coaches, players, or umpires advance their knowledge of whatever rules they're calling. When these coaches argue that they saw the same play on TV or another game an umpires credibility will be greatly enhanced by being able to explain the differences. How many times during an argument or after do softball umps have to listen to coaches, fans and players say things like, that's why he's a softball umpire. I usually eliminate any doubt in their minds by being able to tell them the differences immediately. If your best answer is I don't know about other rules you not only lose credibility but you do the game an injustice. If we're not here to help advancement of all involved, what is our purpose? A paycheck? What will stop the confusion? Information you should be able to explain so coaches can instruct their players. Whether we like it or not, both sports overlap in arguments with coaches. Saying I don't know or that's the coaches problem will do nothing to alleviate this problem. If you want everyone on the same page as far as your sports rules go, umpires need to explain it so everyone understands. Or wait for someone to sprinkle magic dust that will make coaches read the book. Coaches don't read books usually and if an umpire can't explain it he only adds to the confusion.

[topper]

Originally Posted by MigoP

If these umpires were more informed of the differences in the 2 they will eventually get better at distinguishing the differences........

.......When these coaches argue that they saw the same play on TV or another game an umpires credibility will be greatly enhanced by being able to explain the differences.

How a softball rule differs from a baseball rule is of no concern to me and has had no bearing on any game I have called. Being able or willing to explain the differences during a game doesn't enhance credibility.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by MigoP

How many times during an argument or after do softball umps have to listen to coaches, fans and players say things like, that's why he's a softball umpire.

Huh? In my personal experience...never.

Originally Posted by MigoP

If your best answer is I don't know about other rules you not only lose credibility but you do the game an injustice.

Other rules don't even enter into my explanation of a call. I tell them what the rule is for the ruleset we are using. I can assure you, "I don't know what the rule is in [other ruleset]" has never been my answer to a coach.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

CUTE ????

Her word, not mine