Live Ball Appeal Questions

[dnorthen]

I recently encountered an issue during an appeal and need advice. This happened during a couple of recent Little League games:

The proper way, as I understand it, to execute an appeal of a runner missing a base is to have the pitcher standing on the rubber (while the ball is live) to properly step back off the rubber (thus becoming a fielder) and make it clear to the Umpire that an appeal is being made that the runner missed a base. The pitcher shall then throw the ball to a fielder that will either tag the runner in violation or touch the base missed. My questions are:

a. If multiple runners scored on a play and one of them missed 3rd, does it have to specified which runner they are claiming missed the base when the appeal is made? Does this omission cause an err on the appeal?

b. Since the ball is live during an appeal, can the runners advance at their own risk during the appeal? Since the appeal is not a play, by rule, I would say no - but the coaches objected to this judgement when I returned the runners.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by dnorthen

I recently encountered an issue during an appeal and need advice. This happened during a couple of recent Little League games:

The proper way, as I understand it, to execute an appeal of a runner missing a base is to have the pitcher standing on the rubber (while the ball is live) to properly step back off the rubber (thus becoming a fielder) and make it clear to the Umpire that an appeal is being made that the runner missed a base. The pitcher shall then throw the ball to a fielder that will either tag the runner in violation or touch the base missed.

The pitcher only needs to go to the rubber with the ball is to put it in play if it is dead. If the ball is still live, there is no need for the pitcher to be on the rubber with the ball, it can go straight to the fielder making the appeal.

a. If multiple runners scored on a play and one of them missed 3rd, does it have to specified which runner they are claiming missed the base when the appeal is made? Does this omission cause an err on the appeal?

Yes, they are required to tell you which runner missed which base. If they state "Ump, he missed third!", I am going to ask "Who did?"

b. Since the ball is live during an appeal, can the runners advance at their own risk during the appeal?

Yes.

Since the appeal is not a play, by rule, I would say no - but the coaches objected to this judgement when I returned the runners.

You kicked it. If a runner breaks for the next base during the appeal to draw a throw, that is smart baseball.

[PeteBooth]

It is not necessary for F1 step back off the rubber in order to make an appeal. He can throw directly to the base. Also, if F1 does step back off the rubber he must do so Legally otherwsie he has committed a balk and the defense cannot appeal.

Unless it's OBVIOUS as to which runner the coach is appealing, you simply say "skip which runner"

You kicked this one. When the ball is "live" runners can advance at their own risk.


Now you said LL so if you are talking about 60ft. baseball that's another story.

The answers I gave are for the BIG diamond

Pete Booth

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Now you said LL so if you are talking about 60ft. baseball that's another story.

The answers I gave are for the BIG diamond

Pete Booth

The answers are the same in 60 ft LL.

[TussAgee11]

And if the defense loses their chance to make an appeal based off an offensive action, they still can try to do it again.

Sitch: R1, 2 outs. F1 turns to appeal 3rd base on a runner that just scored. R1 breaks for 2nd, F1 throws to F5 who comes off the base before he catches in order to throw to F4. R1 is subsequently put out in a run-down. The defense then executes the appeal at 3rd base.

Ruling: The appeal shall be ruled upon by the umpire since it is an advantagous 4th out appeal. The defense did not lose their right to appeal because a play was initiated by the offense.

Just to add on to the OP...

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

The defense did not lose their right to appeal because a play was initiated by the offense.

True in FED and NCAA.

False in OBR and LL.

[canadaump6]

Why not true in OBR? The appeal supersedes the 3rd out.

[UmpJM]

canadaump6,

Under OBR rules, the defense loses it's right to appeal a baserunning infraction if they attempt to make a "post continuous action" play (whether successful or not, whether the defense initiated the "action" of the play or not) or initiate delivery of a pitch prior to making the appeal.

In TussAgee's sitch, the appeal would always be denied under OBR rules, while it could be upheld under NCAA or FED rules since the offense initiated the action of the subsequent play.

As Rich said.

JM

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by dnorthen

Does this omission cause an err on the appeal?

everybody passed on this question, so i'll answer it for you cuz i'm in a good mood. no. the defense may appeal multiple runners at the same base, and/or the same runner at multiple bases without losing their right to appeal (provided, of course, that they don't throw the ball out of play in the process.)

[UmpJM]

bobby,

I believe Welpe addressed this point (obliquely, but correctly) in his comprehensive reply to dnorthen in the 2nd post of this thread.

Credit where credit is due.

JM

[aceholleran]

The worst rules call I ever kicked was allowing an appeal after F1 balked on his first appeal attempt. Offensive coach protested the game immediately, in calm tones. He knew better than I.

The gods of CS/FP were smiling at me, for back in that day, in that league, if the protesting team won the game, the protest could be retracted, and it was.

Ace

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

bobby,

I believe Welpe addressed this point (obliquely, but correctly) in his comprehensive reply to dnorthen in the 2nd post of this thread.

Credit where credit is due.

JM

Originally Posted by dnorthen

a. If multiple runners scored on a play and one of them missed 3rd, does it have to specified which runner they are claiming missed the base when the appeal is made? Does this omission cause an err on the appeal?

Originally Posted by Welpe

Yes, they are required to tell you which runner missed which base. If they state "Ump, he missed third!", I am going to ask "Who did?"

i still don't see it.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

bobby,

I believe Welpe addressed this point (obliquely, but correctly) in his comprehensive reply to dnorthen in the 2nd post of this thread.

Credit where credit is due.

JM

Thanks JM. Bobby gave him a more complete answer and I'm all about getting it right.