Electronic Equipment on Field (ASA)

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It is a hard, protruding item that is not part of the uniform or game equipment. IMJ, it is just as dangerous as a radio attached to a belt. Understand, I'm beyond the communications point, but items not allowed in the coaching box in general.

So what's a clipboard?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And I do understand the difference between championship play and local ball. However, I've never played or umpired in any league that did not use championship play rules with specific amendments. However, the default was always the rule book.

And that's the case here as well. However, as I said before, the emphasis around here is more on participation and less on the strict letter of the rule. Uniform rules are completely relaxed, no one gets in a twist if a player steps out of the dugout for a smoke, etc. The leagues here have every right to use ASA rules, then adapt the tempo to their liking. This is what they want, so that's what they get.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I'm sensing that there is a tendency here to give firefighters/EMTs special treatment. I don't buy it. For that matter, wouldn't it make sense to be more cognizant of and more stringent in the enforcement of the rules involving player's safety at the rec level than in a highly competitive atmosphere?

Well, we're now talking about two different things here: communication devices and safety issues. Safety issues should always be addressed when the umpire identifies one, but the rule regarding communications equipment on the field says nothing about safety. It's a logical extension, yes, and one worthy of our attention. However, if I don't judge the alert radio to be a safety issue, then what's the issue?

I'm not giving EMTs or firefighters special status here. I'm using their example because A) they came to mind first and B) they're more likely than anyone else to have such a device required by their jobs.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

So what's a clipboard?

Something that IS part of the game and allowed by rule that will fly away when hit and IS NOT something that is excluded by rule that is strapped to the body which means there is minimal or any give when another body makes contact.

And that's the case here as well. However, as I said before, the emphasis around here is more on participation and less on the strict letter of the rule. Uniform rules are completely relaxed, no one gets in a twist if a player steps out of the dugout for a smoke, etc. The leagues here have every right to use ASA rules, then adapt the tempo to their liking. This is what they want, so that's what they get.

Well, we're now talking about two different things here: communication devices and safety issues. Safety issues should always be addressed when the umpire identifies one, but the rule regarding communications equipment on the field says nothing about safety. It's a logical extension, yes, and one worthy of our attention. However, if I don't judge the alert radio to be a safety issue, then what's the issue?

I'm not giving EMTs or firefighters special status here. I'm using their example because A) they came to mind first and B) they're more likely than anyone else to have such a device required by their jobs.

Yeah, I get local rules. I have been dealing with local rules for 44 years now. I am also aware of the participation angle. This isn't brain surgery and, no, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. And if you want to hang your hat on it, that's fine. But I don't buy it.

I am also familiar with ASA Rule 12, It is no brainer since ASA, like every other softball sanctioning body, is providing sanctioning and a suggested set of rules, not a parenting and babysitting service, though some would believe many of the participants need just that.

However, are not most "participation"-oriented rules enacted for safety reasons? No metal spikes, no sliding, no double-wall bats and even in some cases, no permanent bases. And before you say it, I really don't care what is or isn't in your area, these are exceptions in many local rules.

So, the participating Lil' Johnnie cannot make it to work the next couple of days because he sustained a concussion when he tripped over 3B and hit is head on the coach's (Asst. Fire Chief) radio which was attached to his belt.

You want to allow items for participation purposes that are specifically excluded by rule and may be a safety issue, yet you have a problem with participants not wearing their sunglasses on their faces. If certain rules want to be amended, they need to be published.

Yes, I'm talking safety because while you choosing to ignore the "communication" issue (4.7.C.5), you may overlooking 4.7.C.1 which specifically states what a coach may have in the coach's box. Of course, I'm not going to ask them to empty their pockets which is where any device necessary to another job may be kept. For that matter, I'm not going to ask them to open a windbreaker or light jacket to see what is under it, either.

If your local league wants to amend/adjust the rules to allow certain things, that is fine, but it is their responsibility to address so you do not intentionally overlook something that could land you in court just because that is what the players may want.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by Dakota

You might want to check closer if you see the coach talking into his sleeve!

If the coach starts talking into their shoes, I'm immediately looking for secret agent Maxwell Smart.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

If the coach starts talking into their shoes, I'm immediately looking for secret agent Maxwell Smart.

I heard it was okay as long as the shoe was sold by ASA

[shagpal]

it's out, and here's an app already.

iScore Baseball - Product Info

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by shagpal

it's out, and here's an app already.

iScore Baseball - Product Info

Okay, I'll bite.

In this case, I don't consider the iPad a communication device. Knowing the product, I would classify it more as an electronic scorekeeping device. I really don't see how an iPad could effectively be used to gain any upper hand over another team.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Okay, I'll bite.

In this case, I don't consider the iPad a communication device. Knowing the product, I would classify it more as an electronic scorekeeping device. I really don't see how an iPad could effectively be used to gain any upper hand over another team.

If there is a wifi signal nearby, any number of ways are available to communicate. Eventually (probably the eyePad 3G ), it will connect to cell phone service, as well. But, if some coach is dumb enough to take a $700 electronic device out into the playing field, well ...

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If there is a wifi signal nearby, any number of ways are available to communicate. Eventually (probably the eyePad 3G ), it will connect to cell phone service, as well. But, if some coach is dumb enough to take a $700 electronic device out into the playing field, well ...

So would you classify this as a communication device? Or an electronic scorebook?

The iPad can't make any phone calls, send text messages, nor does it have any camera functions.

Again, the lines between certain devices are now becoming increasingly blurred, and I predict it won't be long (less than 2 years) before all devices that are strictly 100% electronic scorebooks will cease to exist in favor of software-based development.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

So would you classify this as a communication device? Or an electronic scorebook?..

The new ASA rule doesn't mention "communication device"... it says, "electronic device", which it most certainly is. It allows an exception for a scorekeeping device, which is most certainly is not. It is a computing device that can be used for scorekeeping, as well as for lots of other things, including accessing the internet and all that comes with that. The eyePad is presently more limited than your typical smart phone in its ability to access the internet from your random ball field, since it needs to be in range of a wifi signal, but I expect Lord Jobs to address that with the next revision.

As to what I would allow, I'd be inclined to take the rule for what it says and not try to interpret in too loosely... But, I expect I'll be calling very few ASA games this year (local sanctioning politics, etc.).

[shagpal]

hi dave, thanks for biting me.

the ipad is really a tablet pda, but a really big fast one, and only has wifi capabilities in this first release, but another release will come out soon that could make calls thru a 3G or 4G wireless data service, so in essence, it could send text messages, which would qualify it as a communications device.

technically speaking, setting up a mobile wifi point is now rather easy.

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

So would you classify this as a communication device? Or an electronic scorebook?

The iPad can't make any phone calls, send text messages, nor does it have any camera functions.

Again, the lines between certain devices are now becoming increasingly blurred, and I predict it won't be long (less than 2 years) before all devices that are strictly 100% electronic scorebooks will cease to exist in favor of software-based development.

[Skahtboi]

Even without the ability to text or make calls, the iPad can still send emails which could be read on any phone or computing device, therefore making it capable now of communicating.

[bniu]

Originally Posted by Dakota

You might want to check closer if you see the coach talking into his sleeve!

i've got enough to worry about. If I can see it, i might under the proper circumstances gently remind the coach about the rule but i'm not going inside their pockets, under their sleeves to check...the first rule of all umpiring should be "don't go looking for trouble".

Younger more tech savvy umpires will probably let iphones slide more. The tournament commissioner could ask coaches with iphones to remove their sim cards and deposit the sim cards with the commish. i'm sure there's no wifi access points around ballparks, unless a coach hides a mi-fi device in an equipment bag...

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by bniu

i've got enough to worry about. If I can see it, i might under the proper circumstances gently remind the coach about the rule but i'm not going inside their pockets, under their sleeves to check...the first rule of all umpiring should be "don't go looking for trouble".

Younger more tech savvy umpires will probably let iphones slide more. The tournament commissioner could ask coaches with iphones to remove their sim cards and deposit the sim cards with the commish. i'm sure there's no wifi access points around ballparks, unless a coach hides a mi-fi device in an equipment bag...

Don't know about the rest of the world, but in the US, iPhones do not have removable SIM cards.

Some Android phones on certain carriers, however, may have removable SIM cards, but they may also still have wireless (a-la 802.11b or 802.11g).

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by bniu

i've got enough to worry about. If I can see it, i might under the proper circumstances gently remind the coach about the rule but i'm not going inside their pockets, under their sleeves to check...the first rule of all umpiring should be "don't go looking for trouble"....

You might go looking for a sense of humor, too.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Don't know about the rest of the world, but in the US, iPhones do not have removable SIM cards.

Some Android phones on certain carriers, however, may have removable SIM cards, but they may also still have wireless (a-la 802.11b or 802.11g).

SIM cards are only used with GSM carriers (in the USA, AT&T, T-Mobile). They are not used with CDMA carriers (in the USA, Verizon, Sprint).