Electronic Equipment on Field (ASA)

[NCASAUmp]

This year, ASA changed rule 4-7-C-5 to read:

No electronic equipment, to include cell phones, pagers, etc., are al-
lowed to be worn or carried on the playing field.

ASA provided further clarification in RS #11:

Communication / electronic devices, including audio / video equipment, are not allowed on the playing field or in the dugouts. Head phones and ear phones have been used by coaches to communicate from one coaches’ box to the other, to communicate between coaches and the dugout, and from the stands to the dugout. Signs and signals have been stolen while outside the field of play, stands or the outfield area and communicated to coaches or players. Therefore, umpires must prohibit any use of such equipment. Electronic scorebooks, however, are permitted for use by base coaches.

The part in particular that I want to focus on is the bolded part. What should we do with base coaches who want to use an app on their iPhones as their method of scorekeeping?

I think ASA would err on the side of caution and prohibit these devices as well (and my interpretation would be in line with this statement), but with technologies constantly evolving and merging, it may become harder and harder to classify devices as "just a phone" versus "just an electronic scorebook." The distinction between a phone and a personal computer is getting very blurry. The iPad, for example, does not come with any cell phone-based technologies by default, so it conceivably could be used as just an electronic scorebook. However, an app could easily come along and use wifi to communicate with another iPad in the dugout.

For the record, there is no way to "lock" an iPhone or Android-based device into using only that one app. Even if there were, the user can just as easily unlock it and use it as a communication device.

What are your thoughts regarding this matter?

[MrRabbit]

Electronic scorebooks, however, are permitted for use by base coaches.

Why is a base coach keep score?

Guess they must have a not hitting team so they need something to do.

It is a communication device and it is electronic It is illegal.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MrRabbit

Electronic scorebooks, however, are permitted for use by base coaches.

Why is a base coach keep score?

Guess they must have a not hitting team so they need something to do.

It is a communication device and it is electronic It is illegal.

Well, plenty of base coaches keep score during games, so it's not at all unusual.

My point in bringing all of this up isn't so much for debate as it is awareness. Technology is changing. We all need to be aware of the different technologies that are coming out that could impact the game, and we need to recognize that due to technologies merging (by creating newer devices like iPhones, Android phones and iPads) and becoming more software-driven, we're going to see coaches who will want to use these devices out on the field. I've seen a lot of players on other forums ask questions like, "what's the best softball app for the iPhone?" And yes, they are out there.

Again, I'm not advocating that we allow these devices, as they are still, at their hearts, communication devices. As such, they should be prohibited from being on the field.

[Skahtboi]

Personally, I think ASA and all other organizations should make a stand one way or the other. Either completely disallow electronic devices of any form, for the reasons Dave has already stated, or decide that you are going to allow everything. I lean toward the first, myself. And if that is the course they choose, there should be no exceptions.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Personally, I think ASA and all other organizations should make a stand one way or the other. Either completely disallow electronic devices of any form, for the reasons Dave has already stated, or decide that you are going to allow everything. I lean toward the first, myself. And if that is the course they choose, there should be no exceptions.

I do not disagree. However, it shouldn't be that difficult to notice if the coach is using the "device" for something other than keeping score.

The crux of this change that was discussed in committee seemed to lean toward video. Of course, we have all seen or heard about morons wanting to show the umpire a video of a play for either a ruling or intimidation purposes. OTOH, I could see the point concerning communications with outside concerns. While I believe stealing and interpreting signals is part of any game strategy, it should be within the confines of the field, not with the help of someone posted on top of a hill 200 yds away with high-power binoculars.

Yes, I know how ridiculous that sounds, but who on here that has been around a while would put that past some coaches/parents you have encountered?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

However, it shouldn't be that difficult to notice if the coach is using the "device" for something other than keeping score.

During a game, how much do you, or any of us, ever notice what a coach is doing? If they are using their iPhone with a scoring app to stay within the strictest confines of the rule, how can we notice if they send a text or email?
If they have their scoring device out there, and it is, as Dave suggested, an iPad, are you going to know whether or not they are communicating online with anyother individual, say on the hill 200 ft away with high powered binoculars? No....to prevent any communication, it is easier just to do away with all electronic devices. Paper and pen/pencil have worked well for ages, if score keeping is all that they are interested in.

[Paws7]

I use an iPod Touch with the iScore app (great program for under $5). What I have found is while it is pretty easy to use, it does have it problems (glare) and in a fast moving game to be using it on the field is too consuming.

I'd like to know if any of you have seen this "Clicker" app for iPod/iPhone?

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ump-c...349703143?mt=8

[IMG][/IMG]

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Paws7

I use an iPod Touch with the iScore app (great program for under $5). What I have found is while it is pretty easy to use, it does have it problems (glare) and in a fast moving game to be using it on the field is too consuming.

I'd like to know if any of you have seen this "Clicker" app for iPod/iPhone?

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ump-c...349703143?mt=8

[IMG][/IMG]

Even if I had this app, I would not want to put it on a phone that has a base cost in the hundreds of dollars while I'm on the field.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

During a game, how much do you, or any of us, ever notice what a coach is doing? If they are using their iPhone with a scoring app to stay within the strictest confines of the rule, how can we notice if they send a text or email?
If they have their scoring device out there, and it is, as Dave suggested, an iPad, are you going to know whether or not they are communicating online with anyother individual, say on the hill 200 ft away with high powered binoculars? No....to prevent any communication, it is easier just to do away with all electronic devices. Paper and pen/pencil have worked well for ages, if score keeping is all that they are interested in.

And even if they COULD communicate with someone else on the field, the latency of the network would prevent any useful information from reaching the right people in time. Granted, network latency is constantly improving, but in a game situation, even a <1ms latency isn't enough to be of any benefit. Not to mention the fact that the devices then need to process and render whatever signals have been received.

In short, using these devices as a covert means of communicating around the field is, in all honesty, quite useless and futile (at this time).

As for Mike's comment regarding the recording of plays, that's always going to exist, whether ASA prohibits video equipment in dugouts or not. There's ALWAYS going to be some (hot) mom in the stands with a camcorder who's more than willing to show you her footage.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In short, using these devices as a covert means of communicating around the field is, in all honesty, quite useless and futile (at this time).

While text and email are considerations, let us not forget about blue tooth earpieces. I think this more likely. I witnessed it while off the field (observing the "talker"), and it took me a few minutes to realize who he is talking to.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Even if I had this app, I would not want to put it on a phone that has a base cost in the hundreds of dollars while I'm on the field.

Same with the fantastic countdown timer application that came standard on my iPod Touch. It's simple to use, has a nice loud buzzer and would be perfect for using in timed games- if I didn't have to expose my shiny new iPod to dirt, sweat or a possible stray pitch!

[Dakota]

Taking the rule and RS as written, the following are prohibited:

• cell phones
• head phones or ear phone
• other wireless communications devices (blue tooth and wifi are communications technologies, so devices with this technology are prohibited)
• other audio or video equipment

The only electronic device allowed is an electronic scorebook. It does not say that a communications devices with a scorebook app is legal. It is still a communications device, and hence illegal.

This means that smartphones (iPhone, Driod, Blackberry, etc.) are prohibited because they are communications devices, regardless of what apps are on the device.

I'm not sure you can buy electronic scorebooks that are not also communications devices, but that would seem to be all that is legal.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

While text and email are considerations, let us not forget about blue tooth earpieces. I think this more likely. I witnessed it while off the field (observing the "talker"), and it took me a few minutes to realize who he is talking to.

And with bluetooth devices getting smaller and smaller, it's conceivable that someone could have a bluetooth earpiece that's hardly noticeable with a cell phone hidden in the dugout. Bluetooth has a range of over 30 feet.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Taking the rule and RS as written, the following are prohibited:

• cell phones
• head phones or ear phone
• other wireless communications devices (blue tooth and wifi are communications technologies, so devices with this technology are prohibited)
• other audio or video equipment

The only electronic device allowed is an electronic scorebook. It does not say that a communications devices with a scorebook app is legal. It is still a communications device, and hence illegal.

This means that smartphones (iPhone, Driod, Blackberry, etc.) are prohibited because they are communications devices, regardless of what apps are on the device.

I'm not sure you can buy electronic scorebooks that are not also communications devices, but that would seem to be all that is legal.

You beat me to it. A phone or camera is still a phone or a camera. The fact that it has some non-approved attachment means it cannot be legal unless on the "Approved Electonic Equipment List" that you can try to find on the ASA web site.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And with bluetooth devices getting smaller and smaller, it's conceivable that someone could have a bluetooth earpiece that's hardly noticeable with a cell phone hidden in the dugout. Bluetooth has a range of over 30 feet.

You might want to check closer if you see the coach talking into his sleeve!