Ground Rule Double or live ball?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by SRW

Please tell me you didn't just quote Wikipedia as a reliable source of information....

Yeah, give me a moment... I'll log in and change the entire article for ya.

I knew that wikipedia account would come in handy someday...

[youngump]

Originally Posted by SRW

Please tell me you didn't just quote Wikipedia as a reliable source of information....

Why not, every other source of information you can find is just as much based on common understanding of the term? Would this have been better:
Baseball . Baseball for Beginners . Baseball Glossary | PBS ?

Here's what a trivial define request came back with.
define:book rule double - Google Search

define:Ground rule double - Google Search
________
Bubbler Pipe

[greymule]

To me, insisting on book rule double over ground rule double is like insisting that the plural of RBI must be RBI and not RBIs, or insisting that it's incorrect to say "the winning run is on 3B" when it's actually the potential winning run.

My own HI: book rule double is fine, but ground rule double is the universal term that everybody understands. It's as if the rule book long ago established one ground rule that applies on every field.

I will admit, though, that some commonly used terms are misleading and should be avoided, dropped rather than uncaught third strike being one of them.

We know to differentiate between caught and gloved, but we understand that gloved also covers a play in which a fielder receives and secures a throw with his bare hand.

Every day we read or hear terms that are not literally correct but are simply accepted. Just this morning, I read about how "ballistics tests" proved that the gun found in the suspect's car was the same gun used to kill somebody.* Everybody knows what that means, and nobody considers the fact that no actual ballistics tests were done at all.

*Though I have moved to Alabama, I still monitor the "crime feed" from the Soprano State.

[wadeintothem]

kinda like clicker and indicator.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

Why not, every other source of information you can find is just as much based on common understanding of the term? Would this have been better:
Baseball . Baseball for Beginners . Baseball Glossary | PBS ?

Here's what a trivial define request came back with.
define:book rule double - Google Search

define:Ground rule double - Google Search

Okay, I know this isn't in Wikipedia or in a box of Cracker Jacks as the value is about the same, but I'll make this statement anyway.

"Ground rules" are standards based upon specific conditions particular to the field in question. No rule book addresses specific ground rules.

The rule book does address is the manner in which to address situations which occur during the game and, at times, are similar in nature to standard ground rules one may experience.

HOWEVER, it is quite possible a ground rule does NOT coincide with the rule book awards and restrictions. There was a big todo about an umpire who ruled a "ground rule triple" on a ball which rolled down an embankment adjacent to the field being used for a HS game. Problem is such a rule was not discussed prior to the game, hence when the ball left playable territory, the rule book guidelines for base awards should have been followed.

This umpire still gets ribbed about calling a "ground rule triple" and is routinely reminded there is no such animal. That is not true. Should there be specific conditions at a field which may warrant such a special or "grounds" rule that may not coincide with the rule book, they can assuming their specific organization does not forbid it. It may be possible that some organization's rules may restrict the number of bases awarded.

BTW, ASA 2.2 gives tournament officials that authority.

[greymule]

A few years ago, a (very) local cable channel broadcast a baseball game between two nearby high schools. One camera (in the 3B stands), and the "announcer" was a high school kid.

It was kind of fun to watch the local game, but the terminology of the play-by-play kid was amusing. On every swinging strikeout, the kid announced, "Caught him looking!" On every called strike, he announced, "Right down the middle for strike [whatever]."

On a Texas-leaguer, he informed the viewers that because the ball fell in front of the outfielder and behind the infielder, it would be ruled a "ground rule single." Also falling into the "ground rule single" category was a ground ball on which F3 threw home to retire the runner from 3B and the BR was safe at 1B.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

A few years ago, a (very) local cable channel broadcast a baseball game between two nearby high schools. One camera (in the 3B stands), and the "announcer" was a high school kid.

It was kind of fun to watch the local game, but the terminology of the play-by-play kid was amusing. On every swinging strikeout, the kid announced, "Caught him looking!" On every called strike, he announced, "Right down the middle for strike [whatever]."

On a Texas-leaguer, he informed the viewers that because the ball fell in front of the outfielder and behind the infielder, it would be ruled a "ground rule single." Also falling into the "ground rule single" category was a ground ball on which F3 threw home to retire the runner from 3B and the BR was safe at 1B.

Tim McCarver when back to HS? It's about time!

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Tim McCarver when back to HS? It's about time!

McCarver's son - or maybe his cousin Morgan's son?

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by youngump

Why not, every other source of information you can find is just as much based on common understanding of the term? Would this have been better:
Baseball . Baseball for Beginners . Baseball Glossary | PBS ?

Here's what a trivial define request came back with.
define:book rule double - Google Search

define:Ground rule double - Google Search

I can bring a much more definitive source to the tournament this weekend.

Otherwise, why not just accept the fact that we KNOW the difference between a book rule double and a ground rule double, accept what we are telling you as the truth as explained by myself, Mike and others, and can have verified by the Local UIC, the Regional UIC, the Deputy Director of Umpires, the Director of Umpires, the Director of Member Services and can go out, dig up Bill Klem's grave and have him tell you that what we are telling you is correct.

Don't make me hit my head on the wall out of frustration on this one...

[youngump]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

I can bring a much more definitive source to the tournament this weekend.

Otherwise, why not just accept the fact that we KNOW the difference between a book rule double and a ground rule double, accept what we are telling you as the truth as explained by myself, Mike and others, and can have verified by the Local UIC, the Regional UIC, the Deputy Director of Umpires, the Director of Umpires, the Director of Member Services and can go out, dig up Bill Klem's grave and have him tell you that what we are telling you is correct.

Don't make me hit my head on the wall out of frustration on this one...

Fair enough, I don't want you to hurt your head and you certainly don't need to go grave robbing on my account. BRD it is.
________
GONG BONG

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by youngump

Fair enough, I don't want you to hurt your head and you certainly don't need to go grave robbing on my account. BRD it is.

Heck, I already dug him up. Amazingly, he moves better than three partners I had this year.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Heck, I already dug him up. Amazingly, he moves better than three partners I had this year.

Sure hope you're not counting me...
________
AnyWishes live

[SRW]

Originally Posted by youngump

Sure hope you're not counting me...

He'll tell you after 9pm Friday night...