Had to forfeit my 1st game

[Dholloway1962]

The "if necessary" game at 14 and under tourney. Home team down 2 with 2 1/2 minutes to play and at bat with 2 outs. HT coach talks to his batter coming up and tells her something, not sure. She swings at 1st pitch then coach tells her to "come on". She promptly proceeds to the dugout and enters it. HT coach starts clapping and says that's 3 outs girls take the field.

I am standing at plate doing nothing and say I need a batter at the plate. HT coach says that 3 outs she entered the dugout, I say no, I need a batter now. HT coach sends his players onto the field as I call "strike 2". He then proceeds to tell me I don't know what I'm doing and the rule says she is out. This continues, until my timer goes off, which means 2 minutes had passed.

I called "ball game" forfeit.

HT Coach says that the rules say that once the batter swings at a pitch she can enter the dugout and be called out. I told him no and that rule only applies to a runner or after the batter has completed her time at bat. He said he is home team so he can finish at bat. I told him he forfeited game by not having batter up in 2 minutes after being warned and for delaying or hastening the game.

He wasn't very happy. I'm still looking for the "one swing to dugout rule".

[NCASAUmp]

While we normally are told not to forfeit a game unless all other avenues have been exhausted, I fully support your decision. The coach was clearly attempting to delay the game beyond the time limit once his team had two outs on them.

Kudos to you. You did the right thing.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

While we normally are told not to forfeit a game unless all other avenues have been exhausted, I fully support your decision. The coach was clearly attempting to delay the game beyond the time limit once his team had two outs on them.

Kudos to you. You did the right thing.

I don't think the coach was attempting to delay at all, in actuality he was trying to avoid a prolonged AB by his last batter which would have had time run out on him/them. If he was able to end the inning quickly, the next and presumably last inning would need to be started. Obviously the hope being that they could shut down their opponent and then come back and score the tieing or winning runs in their half of the inning.

Now let's see...how could he have done that quickly? Have the batter contact the ball somehow while stepping on HP? That would work. They needed the third out quickly. Any other bright ideas?

[Tru_in_Blu]

One other thing I'm thinking about - if this was the "if necessary" game, wouldn't that mean "championship game"? And aren't championship games played to completion, i.e. no time restriction?

[wadeintothem]

Balsy call.

I would have (and maybe you did) warned him of the impending forfeit.

Two minutes is a pretty quick forfeit IMO.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

One other thing I'm thinking about - if this was the "if necessary" game, wouldn't that mean "championship game"? And aren't championship games played to completion, i.e. no time restriction?

That depends on the tournament. Also, that doesn't mean you ignore any rules because of the time limit.

He didn't say the game was over because it timed out, but because of a forfeit which could have been effected by 5.4.B, C, D or E.

Don't know if I would have been so quick to pull that trigger, but the umpire is certainly within the rules to forfeit the game.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I don't think the coach was attempting to delay at all, in actuality he was trying to avoid a prolonged AB by his last batter which would have had time run out on him/them. If he was able to end the inning quickly, the next and presumably last inning would need to be started. Obviously the hope being that they could shut down their opponent and then come back and score the tieing or winning runs in their half of the inning.

Now let's see...how could he have done that quickly? Have the batter contact the ball somehow while stepping on HP? That would work. They needed the third out quickly. Any other bright ideas?

Horse hockey! The coach was employing tactics to noticeably hasten or delay the game. There were two outs, time was almost gone, and he wanted to take a quick out by using a tactic that, frankly, doesn't hold any water. They go another inning, which will take another 10-20 minutes (depending on the level). So no, I don't think so, coach. What he was trying to do is not softball.

If the coach had half a brain he would have had the batter hit the ball with her foot touching HP. Would've been a LOT more subtle.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

If the coach had half a brain he would have had the batter hit the ball with her foot touching HP. Would've been a LOT more subtle.

Heck, with 2 1/2 minutes left, he coulda just had her swing at three pitches! He didn't need all the stragedy (spelled correctly... ref: Bugs Bunny...)

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Heck, with 2 1/2 minutes left, he coulda just had her swing at three pitches! He didn't need all the stragedy (spelled correctly... ref: Bugs Bunny...)

No one ever accused coaches of being smart. If they were smarter, they'd be umpires.

Somehow, that doesn't sound right, does it?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

....Don't know if I would have been so quick to pull that trigger, ...

I don't know that I would have, either, but in the calm analysis of a web board, I think it was the right thing to do. OC has already obviously attempted to delay (extend) the game, and, since his stragedy was stupid he has instead allowed the clock to expire. Under these conditions, declaring the forfeit prevents him from going back to legitimate softball to try for a 2 out rally; seems like a good call.

[wadeintothem]

I dunno dakota.

Lets really do a calm analysis. All the coaches strat has done is used up the 2 minutes, so we can start off thankful. When we get done talking to a coach, we dont have to worry about giong that extra inning anyway.

2nd, just go up to him, say "coach, ASA rules state that intentionally delaying or hastening the game will result in a forfeit. I'm afraid I'm going to have to forfeit the game if you dont get me my batter."

The batter would have come up and thats it. No coach would have taken the forfeit here nor should we ever look to forfeit a game, its a last resort. And there should be a warning that its going to happen. If _______________ is not complied with.

The game is not about the umpire reading a rule then waiting to finally get to enforce it, nor is it about some idiot coach who obviously did not know this rule - its about girls playing softball. So let them play ball.

IMO, UNLESS the coach knew the forfeit was coming, this was too quick on the trigger.

[vcblue]

I had this once. I walked up to the OC and told him if he knew I could forfeit a game if in my judgment I thought he was deliberately trying to hasten or delay the game. I told him to get his batter back out there. She came up to finish her time at bat, and I called the game. I only had about two and a half minutes left. The time it took me to explain the rule and the coach to put his batter back at the plate killed the clock.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I dunno dakota.

Lets really do a calm analysis. All the coaches strat has done is used up the 2 minutes, so we can start off thankful. When we get done talking to a coach, we dont have to worry about giong that extra inning anyway.

2nd, just go up to him, say "coach, ASA rules state that intentionally delaying or hastening the game will result in a forfeit. I'm afraid I'm going to have to forfeit the game if you dont get me my batter."

The batter would have come up and thats it. No coach would have taken the forfeit here nor should we ever look to forfeit a game, its a last resort. And there should be a warning that its going to happen. If _______________ is not complied with.

The game is not about the umpire reading a rule then waiting to finally get to enforce it, nor is it about some idiot coach who obviously did not know this rule - its about girls playing softball. So let them play ball.

IMO, UNLESS the coach knew the forfeit was coming, this was too quick on the trigger.

I agree with your principle here, and I've used that "warning" (even though none is actually required) to put a stop to shenanigans before... it is amazingly effective. However, it this case, the OC was being a 1st class a$$.

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

...HT coach starts clapping and says that's 3 outs girls take the field.

I am standing at plate doing nothing and say I need a batter at the plate. HT coach says that 3 outs she entered the dugout, I say no, I need a batter now. HT coach sends his players onto the field as I call "strike 2". He then proceeds to tell me I don't know what I'm doing and the rule says she is out. This continues, until my timer goes off, which means 2 minutes had passed.

I called "ball game" forfeit. ...I told him he forfeited game by not having batter up in 2 minutes after being warned and for delaying or hastening the game....

Two minutes arguing with the umpire? Sending his team out on "defense" even AFTER being instructed by the umpire to send out a batter? Talking about showing up the umpire! Telling the umpire he doesn't know what he's doing?

I might have ejected, though, and see if the assistant coach would send out a batter...

[ronald]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

The "if necessary" game at 14 and under tourney. Home team down 2 with 2 1/2 minutes to play and at bat with 2 outs. HT coach talks to his batter coming up and tells her something, not sure. She swings at 1st pitch then coach tells her to "come on". She promptly proceeds to the dugout and enters it. HT coach starts clapping and says that's 3 outs girls take the field.

I am standing at plate doing nothing and say I need a batter at the plate. HT coach says that 3 outs she entered the dugout, I say no, I need a batter now. HT coach sends his players onto the field as I call "strike 2". He then proceeds to tell me I don't know what I'm doing and the rule says she is out. This continues, until my timer goes off, which means 2 minutes had passed.

I called "ball game" forfeit.

HT Coach says that the rules say that once the batter swings at a pitch she can enter the dugout and be called out. I told him no and that rule only applies to a runner or after the batter has completed her time at bat. He said he is home team so he can finish at bat. I told him he forfeited game by not having batter up in 2 minutes after being warned and for delaying or hastening the game.

He wasn't very happy. I'm still looking for the "one swing to dugout rule".

Two minutes passed between strike one and timer going off?

Did this coach really violate the spirit of the delay and hasten rule? He had time to get three strikes. Was what he did a travesty to the game?

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by ronald

Two minutes passed between strike one and timer going off?

Did this coach really violate the spirit of the delay and hasten rule? He had time to get three strikes. Was what he did a travesty to the game?

Yes

Yes

Without a doubt he had time to get 3 strikes or any of another of other things to "legally" get his 3rd out

Yes

I spent over 2 minutes telling him to get the batter back out, which he refused to do. I wasn't quick on the trigger, I was more than patient trying to just finish the darn game. He refused to get me a batter after more than 2 minutes of being told to do so. He gave me no recourse but to forfeit the game.