Forfeit of a game

[jimmcc]

QUESTION: What is the rule on how long to wait for a ninth player to show up (I thought it was 5 minutes)? And can you not play with eight?

LEAGUE: Slow Pitch ASA Men's League in North Texas.

SITUATION: It was 7:04pm when the ninth player showed up but the ump had called "forfeit" two minutes earlier. The ump would not recall his forteiture saying that once a game is called you can't go back. The ump was also concerned about time constraints.

RULE: The Umpire is instructed and cautioned to employ his best discretions to avoid forfeiture of any game, within the scope of good reasoning.

SUGGESTION: On a 55 minute time limit, start the clock at the top of the hour, no matter what. When the clock hits "49" and the ninth player hasn't shown up - forfeit! It's either black or white - no gray areas.

Thanks.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by jimmcc
QUESTION: What is the rule on how long to wait for a ninth player to show up (I thought it was 5 minutes)? And can you not play with eight?

LEAGUE: Slow Pitch ASA Men's League in North Texas.

SITUATION: It was 7:04pm when the ninth player showed up but the ump had called "forfeit" two minutes earlier. The ump would not recall his forteiture saying that once a game is called you can't go back. The ump was also concerned about time constraints.

RULE: The Umpire is instructed and cautioned to employ his best discretions to avoid forfeiture of any game, within the scope of good reasoning.

SUGGESTION: On a 55 minute time limit, start the clock at the top of the hour, no matter what. When the clock hits "49" and the ninth player hasn't shown up - forfeit! It's either black or white - no gray areas.

Thanks.

That is totally up to your league. ASA does not prescribe any grace periods in their rules.

[jimmcc]

Thanks for the reply, but what about:

"The Umpire is instructed and cautioned to employ his best discretions to avoid forfeiture of any game, within the scope of good reasoning."

I think that this ump gave up too easily! Don't you think that there should be a black and white rule that purely defined instead of a "discretionary" gray-muddy lined rule???

[Dakota]

The rule you quote must be a local rule. Your local authorities need to give whatever specifics they need to in order for it to have the desired effect. Apparently, being several minutes late was within this umpire's good reasoning and best discretion.

He was correct, BTW, that once a game is forfeited, the forfeit cannot be recinded.

[JEL]

Grown Men? Adults? if they cant be there on time,(IMO on time is 30 min prior) the umpire is not to blame. As for my locale, game time is forfeit time. If players cant meet team obligations, they ought to be replaced.

[ChampaignBlue]

Same here, game time is forfeit time. Used to have a "grace period" but after "it's only five minutes" turned into "he gave us ten minutes last week" it was time to lay down the law. Also they only get another ten minutes if it's a double header.

[blueskysblue]

In response to the second part of your question: you cannot play with eight. Ten players are required. A team may "play short", with nine, if, and only if an open slot is kept at the tenth position, and an "out" is taken each time that slot comes up. A team may start with nine, or may reduce to nine during the game. If any "rostered" player shows up, that player must go into the open slot, returning the number to ten. If on the other hand, a team starts with eleven, including the Extra Player, that team must maintain eleven throughout the game and finish with eleven. Refer to ASA Rules 4-1d; 4-4-A; 5-4-H; 5-4-J. Hope this has been helpful to you.

[CecilOne]

Not really, as long as they start with a regulation number, they can finish with one less if someone is injured or leaves for a reason other than ejection.

[blueskysblue]

Yea, Really. 4-4-A: "If the EP is used, the EP must be used the entire game." You have to have ten other players in the game to have an EP; therefore, if you drop to nine players, for whatever reason, the EP is not legal. Now, I'll grant you, I may not understand the intent with which this was written; but it sounds to me like to overrides the shorthanded rule, which allows a team to play with one less plus an out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by blueskysblue
Yea, Really. 4-4-A: "If the EP is used, the EP must be used the entire game." You have to have ten other players in the game to have an EP; therefore, if you drop to nine players, for whatever reason, the EP is not legal. Now, I'll grant you, I may not understand the intent with which this was written; but it sounds to me like to overrides the shorthanded rule, which allows a team to play with one less plus an out.

No, it does not supercede the "shorthanded" rule.

It means that the team must make it known prior to the start of the game and include the EP in the official line up. The sentence noted above means that you cannot drop the EP's position from the batting order for the sake of avoiding the shorthanded out.

As we all know, the EP is an EP, not a DP, DH, DEFO or any other designated status not included here. Extra player means just that, an extra player. Eleven/twelve may bat, but any ten play defense unless the shorthanded rule is used.

[blueskysblue]

So, you're saying a team can start with ten players, plus the EP (eleven total), lose a player, for any reason other than ejection, and still bat ten, without taking an out?

Could that same team start with nine, plus an out in the tenth slot, and still have an EP?

You see, I'm combatting, here in my league, that old "standard" start with nine, finish with nine, or start with ten, finish with ten . . . I have to be really clear on it myself, before I can expect everyone else to be.

Thanks,

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by blueskysblue
So, you're saying a team can start with ten players, plus the EP (eleven total), lose a player, for any reason other than ejection, and still bat ten, without taking an out?

Could that same team start with nine, plus an out in the tenth slot, and still have an EP?

You see, I'm combatting, here in my league, that old "standard" start with nine, finish with nine, or start with ten, finish with ten . . . I have to be really clear on it myself, before I can expect everyone else to be.

Thanks,

No, just the opposite. I'm saying that the EP can never just disappear. By rule, the slot in the batting order must remain and if the team goes shorthanded, an out must be assessed.

This isn't difficult, almost as easy as the infield fly.

[Skahtboi]

jimmcc:

What part of North Texas you from? I know that when I used to call SP, the complex where I worked had a 55 minute time limit with a rule in place that said that a team without the required number of players automatically forfeited five minutes after game time. (There were no exceptions.)