Game forfeit appeals.

[Jim S]

Found a proposed change to the Washington Interscholastic Activities Asociation handbook while looking for some other info.
The State Association has the right to forfeit games in which a school used ineligible players.
In fact a team ended the state record losing streak this past football season by just such a forfeit.
A change has been proposed that would allow a school to appeal a forfeit penalty on the grounds that they would have beaten the other school even witout the play of the ineligible player(s).
The school must show a "preponderance" of evidence to win the appeal.
Some(but not all) of the criteria of the ineligible to be looked at:
1) What were the individual’s statistics from the game and when were they achieved?
2) What was the individual’s time of participation?
3) If this person had not played, who would have and what were his/her capabilities?
4) Was this individual a starter in the contest in question?
5) What was the contribution of the opposing player while this individual was in the game?
6) How did the role played in this game by this player compare to the role he/she played in other games?
7) Was anyone aware this athlete was ineligible prior to his/her participating?
In orther words. "if we would have kicked your *** witout em........"
Any place else have this sort of process?

[James Neil]

Originally posted by Jim S

In orther words. "if we would have kicked your *** witout em........"
Any place else have this sort of process?

God, I hope not.

[Ed Hickland]

Why don't they just wire up a video game and replay the contest without the player?

Seriously, playing with an ineligible player questions the integrity of the coaching staff if they had knowledge before the game and the forfeit is warranted.

But the question they may be seeking to address is the issue of a player playing excess quarters in a certain time period. For instance, player plays 3 quarters in a JV game on Thursday night. Then Friday night plays two quarters where the athletic association rule is four quarters in seven days. The player is an offensive guard. How can one adequately tell if his play in the fifth quarter had no effect on the game?

Would his two quarters be worth more if the score was 7-7 versus 47-7 either way? Which or both should be forfeit?

Or, if he was a QB who came in to play in the third quarter for two series, then, the regular holder gets hurt, so, he appears in the fourth quarter to hold for an extra point. and, the extra point was the game winner. Forfeit or not?

Setting up for appeals just open the door to playing the game somewhere other than the field.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Here in NJ, if the state association declares a forfeit because of using an ineligible player, it's a forfeit---period! Yes, there is a right to appeal based upon other reasons (e.g. the state ruled on the basis of incorrect information), but here the state would never entertain an appeal based upon what might have happened had that player not participated. Wow! Using an ineligible player, as Ed says, is usually a question of ethical practices and as such deserves no right to that basis for appeal.

[twref]

I'm willing to accept that coaches should not have to know all the rules as it partains to force, multiple fouls, some of the quirky situations etc. we have to deal with. But if coaches are allowed to appeal a forfeit they will be less diligent in knowing if players are eligible. The proposal is crazy.

[Forksref]

Originally posted by twref
I'm willing to accept that coaches should not have to know all the rules as it partains to force, multiple fouls, some of the quirky situations etc. we have to deal with. But if coaches are allowed to appeal a forfeit they will be less diligent in knowing if players are eligible. The proposal is crazy.

AGREED! This ruling would open the door for a myriad of crazy appeals. Rules are rules and there are reasons for them! Maybe a coach could appeal a foul that you call. Heck, if you don't get your way these days, do what any decent American would do: Sue