Appeal of a 3rd out - does run score?

[bd41flpk]

Thank you all for the comments, especially the ASA rule note.

I did leave out the fact that the level was Adult SP and the home runs occurred on fields w/o fences - hence each player had to touch their respective bases.

Still a tad confused on (3) above - '....(3) Bases loaded w/2 outs and B/R hits a home run and R2 misses 3rd ==> Results: 1 run scores - only R3 from 3rd....'

I do believe that R3 run would count since R3 is not directly involved in the 'force out' as B1 becomes the B/R? Only R1 is affected by the 'force out'? Am I correct in this understanding?

Thanks for the participation.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Thank you all for the comments, especially the ASA rule note.

I did leave out the fact that the level was Adult SP and the home runs occurred on fields w/o fences - hence each player had to touch their respective bases.

Then as Mike said, all appeals are off. In SP, the runners are no longer required to touch all bases on a home run or a 4-base award. The only exceptions are Masters and Seniors - they, for whatever reason, are still required to touch all bases.

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Still a tad confused on (3) above - '....(3) Bases loaded w/2 outs and B/R hits a home run and R2 misses 3rd ==> Results: 1 run scores - only R3 from 3rd....'

I do believe that R3 run would count since R3 is not directly involved in the 'force out' as B1 becomes the B/R? Only R1 is affected by the 'force out'? Am I correct in this understanding?

Thanks for the participation.

Okay, let's clean up a little terminology, R1 is always the lead runner. R2 trails R1. R3 trails R2, who trails R1. In other words, R1 is on 3B (lead runner), R2 is on 2B, and R3 is on 1B.

In this sitch, Mike would again (as usual) be correct. Since R2 is forced to advance to 3B, he MUST touch 3B. If he misses the base and the defense appeals, that is a force out, and zero runs score (same as if the batter hit a grounder to the shortstop who tagged 2B before R3 reached it). He missed the base to which he was force to run due to the batter becoming a batter-runner.

However, again, since this is ASA slow pitch, runners are not forced to touch the bases on a home run, so there is nothing to appeal. If this were fast pitch, modified pitch, senior slow pitch or master's slow pitch, the above appeal would be granted, and no runs would score.

Make a little more sense?

[bd41flpk]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Then as Mike said, all appeals are off. In SP, the runners are no longer required to touch all bases on a home run or a 4-base award. The only exceptions are Masters and Seniors - they, for whatever reason, are still required to touch all bases.



Okay, let's clean up a little terminology, R1 is always the lead runner. R2 trails R1. R3 trails R2, who trails R1. In other words, R1 is on 3B (lead runner), R2 is on 2B, and R3 is on 1B.

In this sitch, Mike would again (as usual) be correct. Since R2 is forced to advance to 3B, he MUST touch 3B. If he misses the base and the defense appeals, that is a force out, and zero runs score (same as if the batter hit a grounder to the shortstop who tagged 2B before R3 reached it). He missed the base to which he was force to run due to the batter becoming a batter-runner.

However, again, since this is ASA slow pitch, runners are not forced to touch the bases on a home run, so there is nothing to appeal. If this were fast pitch, modified pitch, senior slow pitch or master's slow pitch, the above appeal would be granted, and no runs would score.

Make a little more sense?

Understood on the clarification on the Runners - 3rd - R1 / 2nd - R2 / 1st - R3. Also appreciate the clarification that any of these runners in the: (a) bases loaded or (b) 1st and 2nd who misses a base will be declared as the 'force out' of the 3rd out - Hence, no runs can score. Appreciate it.

One more wrinke: (1) R1 on 3rd alone - B/R misses 2nd on a home run (not over a fence) - Results: R1 still scores since B/R is not forced @ 2nd - correct? If B/R did miss 1st, then no runs score?

(1) R1 on 3rd and R2 on 2nd - B/R misses 2nd on a home run (not over a fence) - Results: R1 & R2 still scores since B/R is not forced @ 2nd - correct? If B/R did miss 1st, then no runs score?

Thanks

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Understood on the clarification on the Runners - 3rd - R1 / 2nd - R2 / 1st - R3. Also appreciate the clarification that any of these runners in the: (a) bases loaded or (b) 1st and 2nd who misses a base will be declared as the 'force out' of the 3rd out - Hence, no runs can score. Appreciate it.

That's what we're here for.

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

One more wrinke: (1) R1 on 3rd alone - B/R misses 2nd on a home run (not over a fence) - Results: R1 still scores since B/R is not forced @ 2nd - correct? If B/R did miss 1st, then no runs score?

Both of those statements would be correct. B2 (the batter-runner) is always forced to advance to 1B on a fair ball, even if it's over the fence.

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

(1) R1 on 3rd and R2 on 2nd - B/R misses 2nd on a home run (not over a fence) - Results: R1 & R2 still scores since B/R is not forced @ 2nd - correct? If B/R did miss 1st, then no runs score?

Thanks

Correct and correct.

In the two situations you provide where the BR misses 2B, the key is rule 5-5-B-3:

No run shall be scored if the third out of the inning is the result of... a preceding runner is declared out on an appeal play.

You have preceding runners, and you have succeeding runners. A preceding runner is the one in front of you while you're running the bases. The succeeding runner is the one behind you. It's a reference to where they are relative to the appealed runner in the batting order.

[greymule]

Still a tad confused on (3) above - '....(3) Bases loaded w/2 outs and B/R hits a home run and R2 misses 3rd ==> Results: 1 run scores - only R3 from 3rd....'

I'm sure that's an oversight. No run would score on that play, since the third out was a force out.

Oops. Apparently in ASA SP you don't have to run home runs out except in Masters & Seniors. Since 2007 I've concentrated only on FP and didn't even know that SP rule.