Orange Base

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by orangebase

It's all good. Seems that it would be a judgement call. The whole momentum taking the fielder into foul territory then returning to the orange base to make the put out is a grey area for the coach that is seeking the rule interpretation.

I appreciate all of your info on this and good luck to all.

I'm still a bit confused as to why there's any confusion. If the errant throw pulls the defensive player into foul territory, the defensive player and the batter-runner switch bags. Nothing more, nothing less.

Simple.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I'm still a bit confused as to why there's any confusion. If the errant throw pulls the defensive player into foul territory, the defensive player and the batter-runner switch bags. Nothing more, nothing less.

Simple.

Well, a little more or less... Neither HAVE to switch bags, they are just permitted to if they choose to.

[orangebase]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I'm still a bit confused as to why there's any confusion. If the errant throw pulls the defensive player into foul territory, the defensive player and the batter-runner switch bags. Nothing more, nothing less.

Simple.

You are confused over the confusion????
Anyway, it is just a matter of the coach thinking she is correct and me trying to find the rule and interpret it correctly. She states the ball was fielded in fair territory (true), but F3 fielder's momentum from moving to the left carried F3 into foul territory, the closest and only play that F3 could take was to hit the orange base. I called out. Coach upset because she thought the orange base is only for the runner, and after much discussion we come to find out that this is not the case.

Any other questions? Done being confused about being confused? (can that be done?)

[Dakota]

It is easier when you think about the purpose of the double base.

It is to reduce collisions between the fielder and the runner.

Requiring the fielder, coming back to the bag from foul territory, to cross the runner's path to get to the white bag would be counter to the purpose of the double base in the first place.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by orangebase

You are confused over the confusion????
Anyway, it is just a matter of the coach thinking she is correct and me trying to find the rule and interpret it correctly. She states the ball was fielded in fair territory (true), but F3 fielder's momentum from moving to the left carried F3 into foul territory, the closest and only play that F3 could take was to hit the orange base. I called out. Coach upset because she thought the orange base is only for the runner, and after much discussion we come to find out that this is not the case.

Any other questions? Done being confused about being confused? (can that be done?)

One more point. The coach has not taken their ACE certification, otherwise coach would not be arguing this at all.

I know this is not an umpire question/concern, BUT...if all the commissioners/JO commissioners were to require their coaches to obtain their ACE certification, we wouldn't have coaches asking about this. I can guarangoddamtee you this coach has not taken ACE, probably not this year or any prior year.

And, if they attended our in person sessions held by JO commissioner with invited guests, like we do in Seattle where we do everything right they also wouldn't be asking stupid questions about DP/Flex. They might be asking SMART questions about it, and that's ok.

(Smart question being, "Can I list a DP and a Flex on my original lineup card and then drop the Flex right after I give you my lineup card?" I wanted to hug her! She got it!)

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

One more point. The coach has not taken their ACE certification, otherwise coach would not be arguing this at all.

I know this is not an umpire question/concern, BUT...if all the commissioners/JO commissioners were to require their coaches to obtain their ACE certification, we wouldn't have coaches asking about this. I can guarangoddamtee you this coach has not taken ACE, probably not this year or any prior year.

And, if they attended our in person sessions held by JO commissioner with invited guests, like we do in Seattle where we do everything right they also wouldn't be asking stupid questions about DP/Flex. They might be asking SMART questions about it, and that's ok.

(Smart question being, "Can I list a DP and a Flex on my original lineup card and then drop the Flex right after I give you my lineup card?" I wanted to hug her! She got it!)

and finally,
"If pigs could fly......."

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

and finally,
"If pigs could fly......."

...you'd have swine flew(flu)?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

...you'd have swine flew(flu)?

ouch

Is that what you get when you mix avian flu and swine flu?

ouch

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

(Smart question being, "Can I list a DP and a Flex on my original lineup card and then drop the Flex right after I give you my lineup card?" I wanted to hug her! She got it!)

I don't get it? why?... I mean I know they can do that. but i don't see the strategy in it. (maybe that's why I umpire instead of coach)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

I don't get it? why?... I mean I know they can do that. but i don't see the strategy in it. (maybe that's why I umpire instead of coach)

It is not a matter of whether there is an advantage, they think there is an advantage and as we all know, you cannot change that mentality.

AFAIC, all the coach has done is lose one entry into the game and restricted the player to where in the line-up she can emerge.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It is not a matter of whether there is an advantage, they think there is an advantage and as we all know, you cannot change that mentality.

AFAIC, all the coach has done is lose one entry into the game and restricted the player to where in the line-up she can emerge.

AFAIC... lol, i had to google that one.

yeah, I asked the coach at home and she said that they had never done it as it seemed trivial and didn't give them anything they didn't already have (she dumbs it down for her poor umpire )

But thanks for the info.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

I don't get it? why?... I mean I know they can do that. but i don't see the strategy in it. (maybe that's why I umpire instead of coach)

Oh there are pages of why this is a good stategy and stuff. It just seems that it would be a little easier to teach 'em to both hit and catch....Its not often we run into aging rightfielders in JO ball who can't cover the outfield pastures like they use to. So we need to only let them hit.

It seems to me the VAST majority of coaches use the Dp/Flex for the purpose of getting one more player in the game.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Oh there are pages of why this is a good stategy and stuff. It just seems that it would be a little easier to teach 'em to both hit and catch....Its not often we run into aging rightfielders in JO ball who can't cover the outfield pastures like they use to. So we need to only let them hit.

It seems to me the VAST majority of coaches use the Dp/Flex for the purpose of getting one more player in the game.

yeah... i was actually asking about why they would list the flex/dp, then promptly drop the flex from the lineup during the plate meeting.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

yeah... i was actually asking about why they would list the flex/dp, then promptly drop the flex from the lineup during the plate meeting.

Because, if they ever want to use the DP/FLEX during the course of the game, then they must start the game with it.