Orange Base

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

better yet.. lets make it a 8' first base ultra-safe mega circle. with some 24" lanes in it.

As in NCAA softball, those lanes wouldn't last a half inning.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Hmmmm...sounds familiar...

Maybe so, but still a true and accurate point.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by orangebase

This is what my Umpire in Chief gave me:
RULES SUPPLEMENT PAGE 107
1. Appeals
A. Types.
1. Missing a base, forward or backward, or touching the white portion
only of the double base when a play is being made on the
batter-runner at first base.
EXCEPTION: A play from foul territory, or an errant or missed
throw pulling the defensive player into foul territory.

This has nothing to do with the play. This was not an appeal.

Page 83
E. When the batter-runner runs outside the three-foot lane and, in the umpire’s
judgment, interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base; however,
the batter-runner may run outside the three-foot lane to avoid a fielder attempting
to field a batted ball. When the defensive player uses the colored
portion of the double base, the batter-runner can run in fair territory when the
throw is coming from the foul side of first base, and if hit by the thrown ball,
it is not interference. If intentional interference is ruled, the runner is out.

Again, nothing to do with the scenario presented.

Page 84
M. The double base shall be used at first base in all divisions of play. The following
rules should be enforced:
1. A batted ball hitting or bounding over the white portion is fair.
2. A batted ball hitting or bounding over the colored portion is foul.
3. When a play is being made on the batter-runner, the defense must
use the white portion and the batter-runner the colored portion of the
base.
EFFECT: The batter-runner is out when there is a play being made at
first base and the batter-runner touches only the white portion, providing
the defense appeals prior to the batter-runner returning to first base.
Once the runner returns to the white or colored portion of the base, an
appeal shall not be honored.

He states that runner would be called Safe. Interpretations?

How convenient this stopped at 8.2.M.3. The next paragraph (8.2.M.4) reads: On any force out attempt from the foul side of first base the defense and the batter-runner may use either the white or colored portion of the base.

What do you think?

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

First Basemen fields ball in fair territory. Fair ball, however the momentum takes him into foul territory. First basemen runs and tags the orange base only before the runner gets to the base.

It states that the momentum took the fielder into foul territory. Just making sure his "momentum" and "runs" were not the same action. If it were, F3 does not have the right to use the orange portion of the base.

BTW, I got some real interesting crawfish info last week.

ohh im always interested in crawfish info....specially if its beer related.

[orangebase]

I am not getting a straight answer. I think it is a judgement call. I made a call that the runner was out. I know that the orange base is for the runner 99% of the time, however the rule book is like reading an insurance policy and I can't get a good answer.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by orangebase

I am not getting a straight answer. I think it is a judgement call. I made a call that the runner was out. I know that the orange base is for the runner 99% of the time, however the rule book is like reading an insurance policy and I can't get a good answer.

How straight of an answer do you want? This has been given to you several times in this thread (assuming the fielder was returning to the base from foul territory, and not just stretching across the base to make the catch...)

Originally Posted by ASA Rule 8-2-M

4. On any force out attempt from the foul side of first base the defense and the batter-runner may use either the white or colored portion of the base.
5. On an errant throw pulling the defense off the white portion of the base into foul ground, the defense and the batter-runner can use either the white or colored portion.

Doesn't seem hard to read at all. The only person not giving you a straight answer seems to be your UIC.

[orangebase]

It's all good. Seems that it would be a judgement call. The whole momentum taking the fielder into foul territory then returning to the orange base to make the put out is a grey area for the coach that is seeking the rule interpretation.

I appreciate all of your info on this and good luck to all.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by orangebase

It's all good. Seems that it would be a judgement call. The whole momentum taking the fielder into foul territory then returning to the orange base to make the put out is a grey area for the coach that is seeking the rule interpretation.

I appreciate all of your info on this and good luck to all.

I'm still a bit confused as to why there's any confusion. If the errant throw pulls the defensive player into foul territory, the defensive player and the batter-runner switch bags. Nothing more, nothing less.

Simple.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I'm still a bit confused as to why there's any confusion. If the errant throw pulls the defensive player into foul territory, the defensive player and the batter-runner switch bags. Nothing more, nothing less.

Simple.

Well, a little more or less... Neither HAVE to switch bags, they are just permitted to if they choose to.

[orangebase]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I'm still a bit confused as to why there's any confusion. If the errant throw pulls the defensive player into foul territory, the defensive player and the batter-runner switch bags. Nothing more, nothing less.

Simple.

You are confused over the confusion????
Anyway, it is just a matter of the coach thinking she is correct and me trying to find the rule and interpret it correctly. She states the ball was fielded in fair territory (true), but F3 fielder's momentum from moving to the left carried F3 into foul territory, the closest and only play that F3 could take was to hit the orange base. I called out. Coach upset because she thought the orange base is only for the runner, and after much discussion we come to find out that this is not the case.

Any other questions? Done being confused about being confused? (can that be done?)

[Dakota]

It is easier when you think about the purpose of the double base.

It is to reduce collisions between the fielder and the runner.

Requiring the fielder, coming back to the bag from foul territory, to cross the runner's path to get to the white bag would be counter to the purpose of the double base in the first place.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by orangebase

You are confused over the confusion????
Anyway, it is just a matter of the coach thinking she is correct and me trying to find the rule and interpret it correctly. She states the ball was fielded in fair territory (true), but F3 fielder's momentum from moving to the left carried F3 into foul territory, the closest and only play that F3 could take was to hit the orange base. I called out. Coach upset because she thought the orange base is only for the runner, and after much discussion we come to find out that this is not the case.

Any other questions? Done being confused about being confused? (can that be done?)

One more point. The coach has not taken their ACE certification, otherwise coach would not be arguing this at all.

I know this is not an umpire question/concern, BUT...if all the commissioners/JO commissioners were to require their coaches to obtain their ACE certification, we wouldn't have coaches asking about this. I can guarangoddamtee you this coach has not taken ACE, probably not this year or any prior year.

And, if they attended our in person sessions held by JO commissioner with invited guests, like we do in Seattle where we do everything right they also wouldn't be asking stupid questions about DP/Flex. They might be asking SMART questions about it, and that's ok.

(Smart question being, "Can I list a DP and a Flex on my original lineup card and then drop the Flex right after I give you my lineup card?" I wanted to hug her! She got it!)

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

One more point. The coach has not taken their ACE certification, otherwise coach would not be arguing this at all.

I know this is not an umpire question/concern, BUT...if all the commissioners/JO commissioners were to require their coaches to obtain their ACE certification, we wouldn't have coaches asking about this. I can guarangoddamtee you this coach has not taken ACE, probably not this year or any prior year.

And, if they attended our in person sessions held by JO commissioner with invited guests, like we do in Seattle where we do everything right they also wouldn't be asking stupid questions about DP/Flex. They might be asking SMART questions about it, and that's ok.

(Smart question being, "Can I list a DP and a Flex on my original lineup card and then drop the Flex right after I give you my lineup card?" I wanted to hug her! She got it!)

and finally,
"If pigs could fly......."

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

and finally,
"If pigs could fly......."

...you'd have swine flew(flu)?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

...you'd have swine flew(flu)?

ouch

Is that what you get when you mix avian flu and swine flu?

ouch