Routine Situation and Odd Ruling

[CelticNHBlue]

I am going to guess three outs in this sit. By tagging the base at first get the BR, the fielder held the ball while contacting the bag that is also contacting the runner on first; electricity gets you the third out.

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I'm guessing that the part we are missing is the tag on R1 while still in contact with the base. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that USSSA doesn't consider that forced runner in jeopardy while still in contact with the base; so their ruling might be only the BR is out, and R1 and R2 are still safe on the bases they never left.

Since Steve has half the answer, I'll give out the full answer: We have 1 out on the batter-runner, R1 and R2 are safe. Rationale: No runner has to give up his base, even if he's forced to. Which brought another twist to the play, that if the throw hadn't beaten the batter-runner to 1B, the batter-runner is still out for arriving at a base occupied by a preceding runner. I swear that is what my UIC told me based upon his call to the national U-trip office.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Since Steve has half the answer, I'll give out the full answer: We have 1 out on the batter-runner, R1 and R2 are safe. Rationale: No runner has to give up his base, even if he's forced to. Which brought another twist to the play, that if the throw hadn't beaten the batter-runner to 1B, the batter-runner is still out for arriving at a base occupied by a preceding runner. I swear that is what my UIC told me based upon his call to the national U-trip office.

Idiocy.

Keep in mind it was a slow-pitch game, not fast pitch, and the ruling is not a written interp.

[Dakota]

Yikes! So, the BR would be well advised to carry his bat so as to better "force" the runner off the bag? Holy smokes!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Since Steve has half the answer, I'll give out the full answer: We have 1 out on the batter-runner, R1 and R2 are safe. Rationale: No runner has to give up his base, even if he's forced to. Which brought another twist to the play, that if the throw hadn't beaten the batter-runner to 1B, the batter-runner is still out for arriving at a base occupied by a preceding runner. I swear that is what my UIC told me based upon his call to the national U-trip office.

That's just plain horsepoopery!

So how does the defense ever turn a double play?

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Idiocy.

Keep in mind it was a slow-pitch game, not fast pitch, and the ruling is not a written interp.

Idiocy doesn't even describe it in my mind. I had a profanity filled description ready, but game time called.

You're right, it was slow-pitch, and it wasn't a written interp, but still a verbal interp from the national umpire staff at U-trip carries the same weight as a written interp.

Originally Posted by Dakota

Yikes! So, the BR would be well advised to carry his bat so as to better "force" the runner off the bag? Holy smokes!

Of course, in U-trip, arriving at first base with the bat in hand would be an automatic out, so either way the batter-runner is screwed!

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

That's just plain horsepoopery!

So how does the defense ever turn a double play?

They can only turn a double play (or even in this sitch, a possible triple play) if the offense doesn't know this rule. Now my guess is, that someone will open his mouth in our city, and we're going to have chaos that makes the Rapture look like a bad sneeze.

By the way, Colonel Potter says "horse hockey!"

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

They can only turn a double play (or even in this sitch, a possible triple play) if the offense doesn't know this rule. Now my guess is, that someone will open his mouth in our city, and we're going to have chaos that makes the Rapture look like a bad sneeze.

By the way, Colonel Potter says "horse hockey!"

Absolutely ridiculous.

Ah yes... I can hear him barking it now.

[wadeintothem]

So even the UIC of utrip is completely clueless.

Thats pretty sad.

This play is a no brainer.

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

So even the UIC of utrip is completely clueless.

Thats pretty sad.

This play is a no brainer.

No, apparently the rulebook (which I don't have with me here at work) backs him up. I didn't have a chance to look it up yet. Hopefully I'll have a chance tonight since I don't have games.

[BretMan]

Here's the definition of a "force out" from the USSSA rule book:

FORCE OUT refers to when a Runner is tagged by a Fielder with the ball (while on or off a Base) or a Fielder holds the ball on the Base to which a Runner is forced to advance before the Runner can reach that Base and before any succeeding Runner is put out.

Here is their actual rule:

Base Runners Are Out Under The Following Circumstances: (8-5-N) When, on a force out, a Fielder tags him with the ball (while on or off a base) or holds the ball on the base to which the Base Runner is forced to advance before the Base Runner can reach the base.

I don't see how you could interpret this any differently than every single other baseball of softball organization does.

Link to USSSA on-line rule book: USSSA Slow Pitch Rule Book

Maybe when they called the "home office" the janitor answered the phone...

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Maybe when they called the "home office" the janitor answered the phone...

That's the only thing I can figure out. There is no way the national UIC passed down a ruling that exempted the rules.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

That's the only thing I can figure out. There is no way the national UIC passed down a ruling that exempted the rules.

And suddenly, I feel even better about making the switch from U-Trip back to ASA.

Originally Posted by BretMan

Here's the definition of a "force out" from the USSSA rule book:

FORCE OUT refers to when a Runner is tagged by a Fielder with the ball (while on or off a Base) or a Fielder holds the ball on the Base to which a Runner is forced to advance before the Runner can reach that Base and before any succeeding Runner is put out.

Here is their actual rule:

Base Runners Are Out Under The Following Circumstances: (8-5-N) When, on a force out, a Fielder tags him with the ball (while on or off a base) or holds the ball on the base to which the Base Runner is forced to advance before the Base Runner can reach the base.

I don't see how you could interpret this any differently than every single other baseball of softball organization does.

Link to USSSA on-line rule book: USSSA Slow Pitch Rule Book

Maybe when they called the "home office" the janitor answered the phone...

Thanks for posting. I went through the rule book several times last night, and this was the only thing I could find and it doesn't even support the interpretation. The UIC said he was reading something in the book during the phone call that was referenced by the National office, and I can't even find what the heck would even come remotely close. I'm still puzzled at what it was. I'll have to call my UIC tonight, with the references you posted (and I've got the page numbers, etc, now). Just downright puzzling.