Partner blues...

[#13]

I am new to my area and was asked to do an NCAA local game. I was told I was with a veteran who books games for another local college. Has to be good, right? I found out I ran into the same situation as a few of y'all with just wanting to get through the game.

Doubleheader, he has the plate the first game to "show me the ropes". Questionable mechanics, couldn't hear any calls, I had to cover all the bases no matter what, strikes below the knees and he was very quick to call pitches seemingly before they crossed the plate. Stressful as it was a close game. 13-12 final, away team (who was markedly weaker) won and 2 long hours.

Specific play that got him some heat and put the coach over the edge...the batter thinks the ball is going to hit her. She falls back and the ball goes off the bat. An immediate dead ball is called. The ball rests in fair territory and is thrown to first. Ouch. Coach comes directly out to me. I politely let him know that we can talk about the movies, good food, whatever he likes, but I am unsure what happened (playing stupid as I couldn't hear anything anyway all day). He laughed, understood and simply said the poor old man behind the dish shouldn't be calling high school let alone college. Then, the plate ump sees us together, shouts he "I goofed up, let's play". Oh man, foul ball called...I am learning the ropes...LOL.

We got through it. Second game I'm behind the dish. 5 inning run rule, 1:15 game and the home team wins as they should and luckily positions themselves for the playoffs.

I think the guy was good at one time, but just lost the edge as we all will someday when we hit the golden years. How I managed it, I covered everything I possibly could to make him look better, kept my mouth shut and couldn't wait until it was over.

Next time at the same place I was with someone outstanding. That was great!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

BU is on top of play , right in front of him, no other responsability?
PU about 75' away?

No way I'm butting in until BU asks.

I'm more of a believer in "see it, call it"; especially things that are either umpire's call like OBS, INT, IP; obviously not specific responsibilities like safe or out at a base, catch/miss, etc.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by #13

... snip ... I think the guy was good at one time, but just lost the edge as we all will someday when we hit the golden years.

Your judgement about that particular ump might be correct, but remember some of us are touchy about our national youth obsession, especially whne it is tied to chronology rather than performance. To brag, I cover fields better than some 20 year younger than I.

Originally Posted by #13

How I managed it, I covered everything I possibly could to make him look better, kept my mouth shut and couldn't wait until it was over.=

My compliments !!

Originally Posted by #13

Next time at the same place I was with someone outstanding. That was great!

Isn't it great that we can always look forward to the good partners, knowing coaches and happy players?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I'm more of a believer in "see it, call it"; especially things that are either umpire's call like OBS, INT, IP; obviously not specific responsibilities like safe or out at a base, catch/miss, etc.

Generally I'd agree with you, but as described here I wouldn't (unless the poster had added that BU was way out of position).

The BU should be right there... (if he isn't there, it's a different story) He has to have a better view than me..
If OC convinces him to ask me, I'll tell him what I saw...

[wadeintothem]

I've called it and I've not called it. I think its a case by case thing. If my partner is lost somewheres, I can call it and have. If he/she is right on it well then I leave it to them.

Whatever you do, I dont believe you should invent a dead ball call in conversation later. If you dont call it, then its done. I dont think you should later be telling a coach you saw a dead ball situation but didnt call it (even a delayed dead ball). Any coach who knows what he is doing will eat you alive, and rightfully so. You would deserve whatever you got for doing that.

As far as I'm concerned, a dead ball situation is not even a "go for help deal". We shouldnt be discussing that. I'm not going to my partner on one either. If the situation is different, I'm not reversing it if you didnt call it. If you come to me on a dead ball call, my answer is "If I saw a ddb/dead ball, I would have immediately called it."

You can post game it later if you did not initially call it.

[wadeintothem]

You know you can always 1/2 raise your arm out and then kinda play it off until you know how its all gonna go down. Then you have plausible deniability no matter what you call...

Just kidden.. sorta..

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You know you can always 1/2 raise your arm out and then kinda play it off until you know how its all gonna go down. Then you have plausible deniability no matter what you call...

Just kidden.. sorta..

Plausible deniability gets you done on Friday afternoon. Handling what happens on your game is an umpire that may work Sunday.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Plausible deniability gets you done on Friday afternoon. Handling what happens on your game is an umpire that may work Sunday.

Riddle me this, Batman.
I am observing last weekend. No one on, 2-2 count on B1. Of course (aren't they all anymore?) she's a slapper. Takes the ol' running swing thing but pitch is high and inside. She definitely went/offered/slapped at -- and missed, but is hit by the pitch in the upper shoulder. Goes down in a semi-heap. Gets up with able assistance from both base coaches, finally trots down to first. I'm thinking well, someone has got to say something about went/offered/slapped, DC or someone. Not a peep.

What is YOUR thinking? Should BU intervene? When asked after game, BU said would not do anything until/unless asked. Head coach for OC is also ISF certified (team was from Canada). I asked him afterwards to put his umpire hat on, and he also said no intervention by BU until asked -- but that was just his opinion (his words). Also said as OC he likely would have been ejected if BU had intervened...

[marvin]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Riddle me this, Batman.
I am observing last weekend. No one on, 2-2 count on B1. Of course (aren't they all anymore?) she's a slapper. Takes the ol' running swing thing but pitch is high and inside. She definitely went/offered/slapped at -- and missed, but is hit by the pitch in the upper shoulder. Goes down in a semi-heap. Gets up with able assistance from both base coaches, finally trots down to first. I'm thinking well, someone has got to say something about went/offered/slapped, DC or someone. Not a peep.

What is YOUR thinking? Should BU intervene? When asked after game, BU said would not do anything until/unless asked. Head coach for OC is also ISF certified (team was from Canada). I asked him afterwards to put his umpire hat on, and he also said no intervention by BU until asked -- but that was just his opinion (his words). Also said as OC he likely would have been ejected if BU had intervened...

Unless asked by my partner I would never offer an opinion on a swing/no swing if I am working the bases.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Riddle me this, Batman.
I am observing last weekend. No one on, 2-2 count on B1. Of course (aren't they all anymore?) she's a slapper. Takes the ol' running swing thing but pitch is high and inside. She definitely went/offered/slapped at -- and missed, but is hit by the pitch in the upper shoulder. Goes down in a semi-heap. Gets up with able assistance from both base coaches, finally trots down to first. I'm thinking well, someone has got to say something about went/offered/slapped, DC or someone. Not a peep.

What is YOUR thinking? Should BU intervene?

I have nothing until the PU asks me for help.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Riddle me this, Batman.
I am observing last weekend. No one on, 2-2 count on B1. Of course (aren't they all anymore?) she's a slapper. Takes the ol' running swing thing but pitch is high and inside. She definitely went/offered/slapped at -- and missed, but is hit by the pitch in the upper shoulder. Goes down in a semi-heap. Gets up with able assistance from both base coaches, finally trots down to first. I'm thinking well, someone has got to say something about went/offered/slapped, DC or someone. Not a peep.

What is YOUR thinking? Should BU intervene? When asked after game, BU said would not do anything until/unless asked. Head coach for OC is also ISF certified (team was from Canada). I asked him afterwards to put his umpire hat on, and he also said no intervention by BU until asked -- but that was just his opinion (his words). Also said as OC he likely would have been ejected if BU had intervened...

No doubt about this one. Rule 10-3.B is clear, no umpire may seek to reverse the decision of another; intervening in this case would be a clear rule violation. Only the PU is empowered to judge swing/no swing, unless PU asks BU if there was a swing.

Once asked by a partner, I believe all umpires need to be truthful about what they saw, not deny to cover; but that truthfulness needs to be in a private conversation, to allow the calling umpire to determine how (and if) the new information will be used. This may require consideration of 10-3.C, where the PU must consider the possible jeopardy of a delayed or changed call. Some bells simply cannot, and should not, be unrung; but that doesn't mean your partner shouldn't tell you the unadulterated truth.

You call what you see, if, and only if, it is your call to make; you tell your partner what you see, if and only if he asks. In postgame, you tell the rest.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Riddle me this, Batman.
I am observing last weekend. No one on, 2-2 count on B1. Of course (aren't they all anymore?) she's a slapper. Takes the ol' running swing thing but pitch is high and inside. She definitely went/offered/slapped at -- and missed, but is hit by the pitch in the upper shoulder. Goes down in a semi-heap. Gets up with able assistance from both base coaches, finally trots down to first. I'm thinking well, someone has got to say something about went/offered/slapped, DC or someone. Not a peep.

What is YOUR thinking? Should BU intervene? When asked after game, BU said would not do anything until/unless asked. Head coach for OC is also ISF certified (team was from Canada). I asked him afterwards to put his umpire hat on, and he also said no intervention by BU until asked -- but that was just his opinion (his words). Also said as OC he likely would have been ejected if BU had intervened...

Why would BU even want to intervene? There is an entire defensive team that should be yelling "she swang she swang!"

BU is not a defensive coach.

Agree with Steve who said it much better..

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Generally I'd agree with you, but as described here I wouldn't (unless the poster had added that BU was way out of position).

The BU should be right there... (if he isn't there, it's a different story) He has to have a better view than me..
If OC convinces him to ask me, I'll tell him what I saw...

Do you agree that sometime a good position to rule on force or tag is not the best view of a possible OBS (or INT for that matter)?

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

No doubt about this one. Rule 10-3.B is clear, no umpire may seek to reverse the decision of another; intervening in this case would be a clear rule violation. Only the PU is empowered to judge swing/no swing, unless PU asks BU if there was a swing.

Once asked by a partner, I believe all umpires need to be truthful about what they saw, not deny to cover; but that truthfulness needs to be in a private conversation, to allow the calling umpire to determine how (and if) the new information will be used. This may require consideration of 10-3.C, where the PU must consider the possible jeopardy of a delayed or changed call. Some bells simply cannot, and should not, be unrung; but that doesn't mean your partner shouldn't tell you the unadulterated truth.

You call what you see, if, and only if, it is your call to make; you tell your partner what you see, if and only if he asks. In postgame, you tell the rest.

I agree 100%...and it was saved for the folding chairs and cooler. The PU, visiting from another association, got kind of upset that BU didn't say anything, even insinuated that I might need to say something. At that point we moved on to more important things and had a spirited discussion about spirits.