Scoring Question

[voicedata]

My daughter had a no-hitter going in a game. There was a player on second (by walk , and passed ball) with two outs. The next hitter hit a ground all between shortstop and third and the left fielder threw the girl out going to third. Does that get scored a fielders choice or a single.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by voicedata

My daughter had a no-hitter going in a game. There was a player on second (by walk , and passed ball) with two outs. The next hitter hit a ground all between shortstop and third and the left fielder threw the girl out going to third. Does that get scored a fielders choice or a single.

I would think its a single... fielders choice is in my thinking a force play choice.

but then again, i'm just an umpire and i'm only worrying about the timing on the play.

[Stu Clary]

I believe you'll find the definitive answer here: Scoring question

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by voicedata

My daughter had a no-hitter going in a game. There was a player on second (by walk , and passed ball) with two outs. The next hitter hit a ground all between shortstop and third and the left fielder threw the girl out going to third. Does that get scored a fielders choice or a single.

Fielder's choice.

[TwoBits]

I agree. Speaking NFHS rules, had the runner not been thrown out at third, the batter would have been credited with a hit. 9-3-2c.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by voicedata

My daughter had a no-hitter going in a game. There was a player on second (by walk , and passed ball) with two outs. The next hitter hit a ground all between shortstop and third and the left fielder threw the girl out going to third. Does that get scored a fielders choice or a single.

Your daughter?
No hitter?

Is there even a question? Fielder's Choice all the way

(Besides, I believe that is the correct scoring)

Edited to add..

I stand corrected on my parenthetical comment.
My smart a$$ comment stands. ;-)

[Tru_in_Blu]

Well, biased scoring aside, this was clearly a base hit.

The runner that was retired at third base was not forced. Had that runner remained at second base, the left fielder was not going to throw out the BR at first base.

Now if F5 or F6 had fielded the ball and was able to retire R1 between second and third, I'd rule a fielder's choice.

If F6 made a diving stop of the ball and it trickled away from her and the runner then tried to advance and was thrown out at third, I'd rule a base hit for the batter [F6 wasn't going to retire her at first] and a head's up assist/putout for F6/F5, respectively.

Ted

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I agree. Speaking NFHS rules, had the runner not been thrown out at third, the batter would have been credited with a hit. 9-3-2c.

This rule indicates that the aattempt to put out another runner was unsuccessful, so I don't think applies here.

The whole concept of "fielder's choice" is just that - a fielder chooses to retire one of one or more runners. E.G. Bases loaded, 2 outs, ground ball to F5. Her choices are: step on third [runner out 5-U]; throw home for a force [runner out 5-2]; flip the ball to someone covering second base for a force [runner out 5-4]; or simply throw to first to retire BR 5-3.

If F5 dove for the ball, [assuming a difficult play here and no error charged] knocked it down, scrambled to pick it up and threw it to home, and the runner was safe, the official scorer would then decide if the fielder had a chance to get the runner at first base. If, in his/her opinion the BR would have beat the throw, it would be ruled a base hit.

Ted

[TwoBits]

Weird thing: None of my softball rule books define the term "fielder's choice" in the definition sections. I did check my baseball rule books (both major league rules and NFHS), and both have definitions for the term, and neither make mention of a runner being forced as a requirement for a fielder's choice.

So, speaking softball, my answer is: Don't know how this would be scored! I still tend to think it would be a fielder's choice, but that may be the baseball umpire in me talking.

[CajunNewBlue]

The instances of fielders choice in the nfhs softball rulebook use force plays... Thats why im still leaning towards a single with a 3rd out on the DMC or DMR for trying to push to third with the ball less than (assuming) 60'-90' away.
Hate to take away a no hitter, but.... ok i don't really care but if i appear to care does that count?
gonna check the caseplays on this... like i don't have enough stuff to do!!

[TwoBits]

Added to top:

Just looked further into baseball rules, and their use of the defintion "fielder's choice" in the scoring section makes mention it must be either the pitcher, catcher, or other infielder that plays on a runner attempting to advance. So in baseball, the OP is definitely a hit.

[CajunNewBlue]

yeah but baseball is so "hard" to call... with all their rules and stuff.

[Skahtboi]

Fielder’s Choice: A fielder fielding a ground ball and attempting to
put out a preceding base runner rather than the batter-runner at first when
a throw to first base would have put out the batter-runner.

A hit is credited to the batter when:

On a ball that reaches the outfield untouched by an infielder, unless
the ball should have been handled by an infielder with ordinary effort
(e.g., ball between the legs).

(Source; NCAA 2009 Softball Rules and Interpretations)

So, there is a decision that needs to be made in the OP. Could the ball have been played upon by an infielder? Could the outfielder have thrown the BR out at first? If there could have been no out at first, no matter what, then the batter is credited with a hit and F7 is credited with a putout. That seems to me to be the most likely outcome of the OP.

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

So, there is a decision that needs to be made in the OP. Could the ball have been played upon by an infielder? Could the outfielder have thrown the BR out at first? If there could have been no out at first, no matter what, then the batter is credited with a hit and F7 is credited with a putout. That seems to me to be the most likely outcome of the OP.

And decisions is why there's usually a PAID scorer at the major league, minor league, and big-time collegiate levels of baseball, and at the big-time collegiate levels of softball. They are PAID to make those decisions, just like we blues are PAID to make decisions on the field. Does anyone like getting PAID to decide stuff?

(It's Friday, and the smarta** in me just wanted to say something smarta**ed before the weekend dulls my mind for Monday morning thus the caps PAID!)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

and at the big-time collegiate levels of softball. They are PAID to make those decisions,

Yeah, and God help that poor student if s/he gets one wrong in the coach's mind!!!