Help on positioning

[DTQ_Blue]

Here's a play I would appreciate some feedback on as per my positioning.

Runners at 1st and 3rd, fly ball to medium depth left field. I'm PU and there is a dead spot in the lights where F7 is set up to catch the ball. I come out about half way between the plate and 3rd about 5-10 feet in fair territory to get the best view of the catch.

Because its dark at the spot of the catch I hesitate a second to make sure of the catch before calling the out (58 y/o eyes at work). By that time R3 has tagged and is coming home and I have to retreat to make the call at the plate from fair territory in front of the plate.

Of course on the tag play the runner goes to the catcher's left meaning the catcher is between me and the runner and I see for the shortest possible slice of time between elbows and torsos what appears to be a momentary juggle by the catcher after the tag, so I call safe.

I'm comfortable with my call based upon what I saw but what I'm wondering is whether I could have somehow got into a better position to make that call. I could have made it into foul territory if I hadn't come as far up the line toward 3rd, but I reacted to get into the best position to call the catch and of course had to hesitate due to the lights.

BTW this was 2 man, i.e., if it was 3 man it would be a whole different story. Is this just one of the tradeoffs you get with 2 man coverage.

Other than that play, I had a great game at PU.

Regards,
Mike

[NCASAUmp]

I wouldn't have gone into fair territory to make the call for three reasons:

1 - Going into fair territory can potentially put you in the way of a play or throw (LOOK OUT, BLUE!).
2 - Foul territory allows you to keep all 4 elements of the play: ball, base, runner, fielder.
3 - You don't want to run directly to where the catch will be made, because seeing a trap will become that much more difficult. Staying in foul territory will give you an easier side view of the catch/trap.

Instead, what I would have done was stay in 3-5 feet in foul territory, moving up along the line until I have the runner offset slightly to the left of where the catch will be made in my field of vision. This will keep everything I need in front of me, and will reduce the distance I have to cover to get back to the plate.

The bottom line is that you need to know your limits. It does you no good to get an extra 4 to 5 feet to call a catch in the outfield if it forces you out of position on a subsequent play. An extra 4 to 5 feet gains you almost nothing on a ball 175 feet from the plate, but an extra 4 to 5 feet can make a HUGE difference when calling a tag play at the plate. It will give you more time to react to where the tag will be made and allow you to get set. It sounds like you may have made the call on the move, which is never a good idea.

It's a matter of priorities. If you blow the call in the outfield, you'll get some grief, but not nearly as much grief as you'll get for blowing a call at the plate.

[DTQ_Blue]

Dave,

So what you're saying is treat the catch call differently in that situation than if there was no runner at 3rd. My instinct on any batted ball for which I have the catch/no catch call is to get into the best position to make that call regardless of who is on base. By going into foul territory, I would have to be well off the foul line to not have my line of site blocked by the coach or R3, but I can see your point that I'm in much better position to make my call at the plate.

I would just have to program myself to position myself differently in that sit vs if there was no runner at 3rd.

Interesting.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Dave,

So what you're saying is treat the catch call differently in that situation than if there was no runner at 3rd. My instinct on any batted ball for which I have the catch/no catch call is to get into the best position to make that call regardless of who is on base. By going into foul territory, I would have to be well off the foul line to not have my line of site blocked by the coach or R3, but I can see your point that I'm in much better position to make my call at the plate.

I would just have to program myself to position myself differently in that sit vs if there was no runner at 3rd.

Interesting.

I'm with Dave here. PU staying in foul territory with a runner on 3B is pretty standard mechanic on any batted ball.

[wadeintothem]

Or, in lieu of positioning, you coulda just rung em up.. problem solved

[CajunNewBlue]

All of the above. but in lieu of getting a out. (my personal fav.)
Foul territory is the place to be.

[Dakota]

And maybe having a talk with the pard about how with the poor lighting and all he might want to occasionally think about going out? Just a thought...

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

And maybe having a talk with the pard about how with the poor lighting and all he might want to occasionally think about going out? Just a thought...

Maybe not with multiple runners on... like in the OP. ya think?

[Dakota]

I dunno... catch should be right being the BU with a fly to left and runners on 1 & 3. I'm no umpire mechanic theoretician (you know, like wade... ), so I never really understood the reasoning behind "once out, stay out" anyway.

Which is worse... BU goes out leaving PU to cover for a tagged up runner going (home more likely than 2B), or guessing on a catch in the dark?

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I dunno... catch should be right being the BU with a fly to left and runners on 1 & 3. I'm no umpire mechanic theoretician (you know, like wade... ), so I never really understood the reasoning behind "once out, stay out" anyway.

Which is worse... BU goes out leaving PU to cover for a tagged up runner going (home more likely than 2B), or guessing on a catch in the dark?

me either. in this case, 2 man sucks.
I could see the BU turning and opening up to the catch... PU stays at the dish (point of the plate) and has both runners in his vision and the first touch.

Regarding the once out stay out... in 2 man (for me) its, once out... come back and help me!! ya lazy a$$.

Nothing wrong with "guessing" has worked for us for years.

just my 2.875675 cents (federal taxes are included)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

Maybe not with multiple runners on... like in the OP. ya think?

Sure, why not? You have never worked a one-umpire game?

I'd rather have the BU go out and make sure of the catch and cover the bases than both of us covering the bases and guessing on the catch.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sure, why not? You have never worked a one-umpire game?

felt like I have... but in actuality I never have. Never.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

felt like I have... but in actuality I never have. Never.

Aftr reading the above, I had to check how many of my games were 1-ump games: 47%.

Ted

[CajunNewBlue]

yeah, but us southern umpires need a designated driver.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

yeah, but us southern umpires need a designated driver.

Are you insinuating us Yankees don't drink? $hit, not only drink you under the table, but across the floor and out the door!

And we don't drink and drive either. I come to a complete stop, drink, and proceed with the utmost caution.