Retreating from home

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

According the the case cited above, no, unless the umpire deems it to be an intentional act to draw the throw. Then runner closest to home called out and runner who drew throw is ejected for unsportsman like conduct.

No intent required in ASA

[DeputyUICHousto]

I think the only way you could get an out would be if the runner from 3rd was forced. ASA has a stipulation that if a runner in a force situation retreats for any reason the force would be reinstated. However, this isn't a force situatoin.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Instead of a dropped third strike, say it was a fly ball to the center field fence that the runner thought wasn't going to be caught? But the ball is caught. If she has crossed home plate [and no subsequent runner followed her there] can't she retrace her steps by touching HP and trying to retreat to 3B before a live ball appeal is made?

She has "scored" and if no appeal was made the run would count. But having scored, and knowing she was way off the base at the time of the catch, she should be able to try to get back to 3B.

Yes?

Ted

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Instead of a dropped third strike, say it was a fly ball to the center field fence that the runner thought wasn't going to be caught? But the ball is caught. If she has crossed home plate [and no subsequent runner followed her there] can't she retrace her steps by touching HP and trying to retreat to 3B before a live ball appeal is made?

She has "scored" and if no appeal was made the run would count. But having scored, and knowing she was way off the base at the time of the catch, she should be able to try to get back to 3B.

Yes?

Ted

Yes, the runner can retreat to a base left too soon.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Instead of a dropped third strike, say it was a fly ball to the center field fence that the runner thought wasn't going to be caught? But the ball is caught. If she has crossed home plate [and no subsequent runner followed her there] can't she retrace her steps by touching HP and trying to retreat to 3B before a live ball appeal is made?

She has "scored" and if no appeal was made the run would count. But having scored, and knowing she was way off the base at the time of the catch, she should be able to try to get back to 3B.

Yes?

Ted

Yes, so long as she did not enter dead ball territory, and a following runner did not also score.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Yes, so long as she did not enter dead ball territory, and a following runner did not also score.

You did mean or not and, right?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

You did mean or not and, right?

Yeah... and and/or or...

One or the other, but both also works...

[wadeintothem]

This is a pretty good one. The status of a runner who has scored seems in question - but I dont know that that is the big the question. The big question is the score.

Rule 5.5.1 - A run scores when...

So are there any criteria which would negate that score?

There is no legit appeal being made, so there is no rule negating the run scoring .. ie the score is in the books. The runner could do any number of things, Interfere (were something else going on), get ejected, do a hand stand, beg the umpire not to score the score because they dont want to play extra innings and want to go home, purposely return to 3rd to prevent the score to prevent run rule.

But they cant.

It's in the book. The ruling on the field was essentially correct in my view, with the exception that I dont believe the status of the runner is the big question - the big question is can that runner do anything at that point to unring the scoring bell?

Barring an appeal sitiation, I dont believe they can.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No intent required in ASA

Or anywhere else, as far as I know.

[RKBUmp]

Cecil, per the NFHS case cited, they say if the runner retracing back to 3rd draws a throw that lets another runner advance, it is not to be ruled interference unless deemed to be intentional by the umpire. In the case study, the base coach thought the runner had missed 3rd and recalled her to the base, drawing a throw from the outfield that allowed the batter to move to 2nd. Since the act of returning to 3rd was not intentional, there is no intererence.

However, per ASA, if a retired runner draws a throw that allows a runner to advance it is interference and closest runner to home is out.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Cecil, per the NFHS case cited, they say if the runner retracing back to 3rd draws a throw that lets another runner advance, it is not to be ruled interference unless deemed to be intentional by the umpire. In the case study, the base coach thought the runner had missed 3rd and recalled her to the base, drawing a throw from the outfield that allowed the batter to move to 2nd. Since the act of returning to 3rd was not intentional, there is no intererence.

However, per ASA, if a retired runner draws a throw that allows a runner to advance it is interference and closest runner to home is out.

In both the rule book and case book, the sentence about drawing a throw does not say intentionally, although the context of the paragraph supports intentionally and now I agree.
Good catch!