True or False - ASA

[Tru_in_Blu]

From the original post, I'll assume the overthrow stayed in play and the runner advanced to 2B at his own risk.

My opinion is that the runner cannot be called out for missing second base [on appeal] since he's currently standing on it. The appeal was for missing second base, and I think that appeal should be denied. So I select "FALSE" to the original post.

However, if the appeal was that the runner did not correctly tag up at 1B, I think the runner should be called out.

If an infielder with the ball ran over to the runner standing on second base and tagged him, I'd have to ask for the specific infraction being appealed.

I'm not familiar with the last pass concept. A more obvious [but similarly egregious] offense would be if the runner crossed the middle of the diamond from around 3B and went directly to 1B [almost via the pitcher's plate]. But again, appealing the missing of 2B when he's standing on it seems hinkey to me.

And, if there was a runner at 3B at the start of all this, and that runner properly tagged and scored, the run would count as the appeal would be considered as a timing play.

Ted

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I'm not familiar with the last pass concept.
Ted

"Last time by" is a baseball concept. If the OP happened in a baseball game the runner would not be out because he touched 2B on the last time he ran to it. Touching a base on your last time by that base corrects any baserunning error you made at that base. As we have seen this only applies in baseball.

[greymule]

[In OBR] Touching a base on your last time by that base corrects any baserunning error you made at that base.

Except a "gross miss."

I think we all agree that the runner in the OP is liable to be called out on appeal. The question is, For what? I'm leaning toward "not legally retouching 1B after the catch."

After all, if in the OP everything remained the same except that R1 retreated almost all the way back to 1B but then, without touching 1B, returned to 2B to correct his error, he would be considered to have touched 2B but would not have retouched 1B. Why would retouching 1B prevent him from correcting his error at 2B?

But ASA may contend that there is no legal retouch of 1B until 2B has been retouched on the return. Therefore, in the OP, even though R1 went back and touched 1B, he never legally retouched it.

Incidentally, this is all just surmise on my part. I have no idea whether ASA has thought this situation out to any degree. I can see, though, why OBR observes the principle of "last time by," since it renders all these questions moot.

[UmpireErnie]

So maybe the key "take away" point is that for returning to a base left too soon on a caught fly ball the "tag up" cannot legally happen until all the other bases the runner needed to touch on the way back are in fact legally touched. Hence the appeal is valid but probably for a different reason than the defense is going to be verbalizing.

My question now is, how picky are you going to be about how the defense phrases the appeal? They are not "guessing", they know a baserunning error has occured, but they are not rule book lawyers; we are. IMO, its enough that the offense knows she missed the base, and why she had to touch it.

Coach: "Blue I want to appeal that runner missed 2B!"
Me: "When was that coach?"
Coach: "On her way to tag up at 1B."
Me: "And why did she have to go back to 1B?"
Coach: (Looking puzzled at this point but still swinging) "Um, becuase she left 1B before the ball was caught?"
Me: (So proud of this coach that I am not even bothering to correct the Coach's verbage about caught vs. first touched): "Yes, you are correct Coach! Appeal granted, OUT!"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

So maybe the key "take away" point is that for returning to a base left too soon on a caught fly ball the "tag up" cannot legally happen until all the other bases the runner needed to touch on the way back are in fact legally touched. Hence the appeal is valid but probably for a different reason than the defense is going to be verbalizing.

My question now is, how picky are you going to be about how the defense phrases the appeal? They are not "guessing", they know a baserunning error has occured, but they are not rule book lawyers; we are. IMO, its enough that the offense knows she missed the base, and why she had to touch it.

Coach: "Blue I want to appeal that runner missed 2B!"
Me: "When was that coach?"
Coach: "On her way to tag up at 1B."
Me: "And why did she have to go back to 1B?"
Coach: (Looking puzzled at this point but still swinging) "Um, becuase she left 1B before the ball was caught?"
Me: (So proud of this coach that I am not even bothering to correct the Coach's verbage about caught vs. first touched): "Yes, you are correct Coach! Appeal granted, OUT!"

Well, while I have been known to give the coach a second or two to think about it, I'm not doing all the thinking and work for the coach. And even though I want one of my 39 (you guys that need 42 or more are slackers! ), the coach is going to have to make the proper appeal.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by greymule

I think we all agree that the runner in the OP is liable to be called out on appeal. The question is, For what? I'm leaning toward "not legally retouching 1B after the catch."

I agree with this. I think you'd be hard pressed to call a runner out for missing 2nd when she is standing on the bag.

I can see, though, why OBR observes the principle of "last time by," since it renders all these questions moot.

I agree with this as well...I just wish OBR actually included some of these interpretations directly in the rules or in an official, widely available case book.